Newbie Question - Relationships - Maps, Modifiers, and Such

[Ayrizale]

Hello,

   I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question, but I figure that it is as good a place to start as any.  I've been lurking and reading on these forums for a few weeks now, and I've come across references to some ideas that I'd like to get some more information on if possible.

   I've seen reference to games that modify actions with modifiers that are based on the relationship between the character initiating the action and the person recieving the action.  I would appreciate it if you could tell me which game(s) do this and, if possible, a brief overview of the mechanics of this or a description of the mechanics.

   I've seen references to Relationship Maps, which I believe are located in the Sorcerer supplement The Sorcerer's Soul.  I cannot, at this time, scrounge up the money to get that supplement, though I do plan to do so at my earliest opportunity.  I would appreciate it very much if someone (perhaps even Mr. Edwards himself?) could give me an overview of the uses and techniques used for his Relationship Maps.

    I realize that these issues are copyrighted, and that discussion of them may be problematic, but anything that anyone can/will share with me would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Lael

[Paul Czege]

Hey Lael,

Welcome to the Forge.

I've seen references to Relationship Maps, which I believe are located in the Sorcerer supplement The Sorcerer's Soul. I cannot, at this time, scrounge up the money to get that supplement, though I do plan to do so at my earliest opportunity. I would appreciate it very much if someone (perhaps even Mr. Edwards himself?) could give me an overview of the uses and techniques used for his Relationship Maps.

If you're willing to follow a few links and read a few threads both here on The Forge and on Gaming Outpost, a fairly thorough understanding of Relationship Maps can be had by starting with http://indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1047">this thread.

Paul

[Ayrizale]

Awesome.  Thanks for the link, I'll proceed through that information immediately.

Thanks again,

Lael

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Lael, and welcome to the Forge,

Hero Wars is the first game I know of to make use of relationships as game mechanics, to the extent that "Friend: Rothgar," or "Relationship: Black Eagle Clan" are just as game-effective over time as "Close combat: spear and shield."

The thread Paul sent you to is the best starting point for relationship maps as a technique.

Best,
Ron

[Ayrizale]

Hi,

   Thanks for the welcome and the information.  Can you recommend any other systems that have relationship mechanics?  I seem to recall reading about a system that applied modifiers to individual actions based on the relationship between the people involved in the actions.  The impression that I got was that this mechanic was somewhat pervasive in the system, such that if a character tried to pick a lock, his odds of success would be modified by his relationship with the owner of the door.

    For example, if the character picking the lock had a negative relationship with the owner and was trying to break in to harm the owner, then there would possibly be a positive modifier.  Conversly, if the character picking the lock has a positive relationship with the owner of the door and is trying to break in to help the owner, then he would also recieve a positive modifier.

    Now I may have misunderstood the details of this conversation and read too much into what was being said, but if such a mechanic exists, I would be interested in taking a look at the kinds of things that other people have done with it and how they deal with the odd situation where there is no clear relationship (other than simply saying "there is no clear relationship - therefore no modifier".)

Thanks again for the responses,

Lael

[Jared A. Sorensen]

Thanks for the welcome and the information.  Can you recommend any other systems that have relationship mechanics?  I seem to recall reading about a system that applied modifiers to individual actions based on the relationship between the people involved in the actions.  The impression that I got was that this mechanic was somewhat pervasive in the system, such that if a character tried to pick a lock, his odds of success would be modified by his relationship with the owner of the door.

Hero Wars is the big one...

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Lael,

I'm pretty sure you're referring to Hero Wars. Relationships are usually used to "augment" rolls, so that your ability to pick the lock is increased by bringing the relationship-ability into the situation. The relationship abilities may also be used as the basic or primary ability in the situation as well, if that's what the conflict is about, but mainly they are used as augmenters. Check out my review of Hero Wars for more information about augmenting in that system.

One Forge member (Clinton!) is apparently working on a new approach to superhero role-playing (Panels!) that uses relationships as the primary mechanic (hurry up!).

(Is there some kind of echo in here?)

Best,
Ron

[Ron Edwards]

Hello again,

A discussion is going on now in http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13180#13180">this thread in the Sorcerer forum, which students of relationship maps might find interesting.

Best,
Ron

[efindel]

There's a couple of other ways in which systems use relationships in mechanics:

Some systems allow using relationships as bonuses or penalties for actions that pertain to the target of the relationship.  For example, allowing a character to use "Loves X" as a bonus when trying to do something to save X from danger, or to resist an attempt at seduction from someone other than X, etc.  Theatrix and Lace & Steel both do this to some extent.

Theatrix allows using relationships as abilities in their own right, via its "descriptors".  A descriptor could be a relationship, and descriptors can be "activated" with plot points for use as special abilities or to give automatic success in an action.  A player could quite well have "lockmaker's son" and use that descriptor to open a lock, for example.

Lace & Steel does a few more things with its relationship mechanics.  It has "ties" and "antipathies", for things you have positive and negative relationships with.  These have a numeric rating.  Ties can be used to get favors.  Successful actions that relate to a tie or antipathy can increase a character's "Self Image" score, which gives bonuses to other things.  Tie and antipathy levels also help to govern "Self Image Investments" which can be made in promises and the like.  Lastly, under the magic rules, the power of a demon that a character can summon is related to the total of his/her antipathies -- the more hate that you have in you, the stronger a demon you can summon.

--Travis