(renamed) Mystic Monks !

[AndyGuest]

Okay, I was thinking on my way into work this morning and the following core to a game popped into my head, it is only the very basics of an idea, and I mostly want to get it down while it is fresh in my head, but have a look and tell me what you think.

I was thinking about Star Wars games where everyone plays Jedi and also thinking about a thread from rpg.net (specifically Damage = Drama ?) and the idea that if you want to really focus a game on something you need that something to be the currency of the game (currency is probably not the best word, it probably already has meaning that don't fit.)

Anyway, a Star Wars game, focusing on everyone playing a Jedi, that tries to focus attention on the force and the struggle between the light and dark sides.

For a Jedi the only thing that limits them is their mastery of the force ('Size matters not') - so it doesn't matter how strong you are, how big, how intelligent, how anything, only how strong you are in the Force. In this game a Jedi has a Force pool. When the Jedi wants to do something they use a number of dice from the force pool. Roll the dice, add em up and compare to a difficulty rating. Roll higher succeed, roll lower don't succeed.

Combat proceeds as follows, Jedi chooses how many dice to roll from Force pool, opponent does likewise, roll and compare, higher wins, loser temporarily loses dice from pool, winner doesn't. When one Force pool is empty that Jedi has lost the fight.

Force powers cost a number of dice from the Force pool dependant on the number of people affected, the size of objects affected, etc.

Force pool replenishes as scene/story/narrative dictates.

Experience is handed out as extra dice into the Force pool.

The dark side of the force is represented by a Dark Side pool. The Dark Side pool starts at zero. Any time a Jedi uses dice from the Force pool they may elect to call on the dark side. When they call on the dark side they can up to double the number of dice in the roll, but for each die they add the Dark Side pool increases by a similar number.

That's about as far as I've got so far. I've got some unformed thoughts about guidelines about using Force pool for force powers, some fuzzy thoughts on turning to the dark side if your Dark Side pool exceeds your Force pool and some rough ideas about allowing the description of the character to lead to bonus dice to rolls when the description is useful to the situation in hand.

Anyway, does this hold any appeal to anyone ? Is it too simple ?

Andy..

[contracycle]

The Good:  right idea, a Star Wars game which started from the Force would probably work better than straight sim.
The Bad: This is not a game, it is a mechanic.
The Ugly: Why ever roll less than pool max?

[AndyGuest]

The Good: right idea, a Star Wars game which started from the Force would probably work better than straight sim.

That's where my thougth processes started...

The Bad: This is not a game, it is a mechanic.

True, it's just a mechanic, it's also the only mechanic in my head for this game, like I said I tend to err on the minimalist side game wise. It definately needs fleshing out.

The Ugly: Why ever roll less than pool max?

Hmm, this is a big problem. I was thinking that normalliy pool dice are spent and only recovered slowly, but for combat I had only the pool of the loser going down which, in restrospect, is a seriously bad idea. What if during combat (or any form of extended/competitive task) both Jedi spend dice from the pool for their attack (or action). On top of the expenditure the loser also loses a number of dice from their pool equal to the winners expenditure. (Would that work ? Does it even make sense ?)

On the down side this would mean that it would be impossible to win a fight without depleting your pool to some extent. Or is that a good thing ?

Anyway, I'm off to think this out some more, like I said it's had less than an hours thought and hasn't had anything even remotely like playtesting. Chances are I'll be thinking about somehting else by the time I walk to work tomorrow ;-)

[mahoux]

I like it.  I have not actually looked at the official sanctioned Star Wars game, but from what I've heard of people talking about it, I think I'm bigger on the Force mechanic and playing Jedi Knights.

Keep going.  This seems to be an interesting concept.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Andy,

Philosophically, I agree completely with you and Gareth - if we're interested in mystic-action SF-fantasy, then yes, the primary Spiritual Thing has got to be the center of (a) design and (b) play. It makes sense.

However, with regret, I also have to say that this thread is violating the Indie Design forum policy, posted as the Sticky at the top of the list, by starting with a licensed property as the basis for the design in question.

The good news, of course, is that Star Wars is itself plenty derivative, and there's nothing wrong with stepping back a level and working from the source inspirations rather than those specific movies. Let's clip out "The Force" as a term and similar stuff like "Jedi" and consider instead any sort of "straightforward violent application of spiritual goodness" context. We've got chivalric knights errant, samurai, Shaw Bros martial arts, 50s juvenile SF, and all sorts of other things, all of which were direct influences on Star Wars anyway.

Since you've already got the core of a system here, I say "Great!" and want to keep reading about it, and to chime in. But we gotta, we gotta lose the notion of the Star Wars setting and its specific details, ASAP.

Best,
Ron

[AndyGuest]

*G Apologies Ron. I read that sticky post this morning and thought 'phew, I'm not saying they did it wrong and this is the right way, just how about trying this'.

So yeah, feel free to replace references to Jedi with Mystical Monks, Force with Good Karma and Dark Side with Bad Karma.

Apologies again.

[Ron Edwards]

Hmmmmm ....

Well, having been completely polluted with Hero Wars' relationship augmentation mechanics, and having seen them influence designs like Clinton's Panels, my Trollbabe, and James' The Pool ....

It strikes me that Good and Bad Karma may do well to be focused very tightly into relationships with and actions toward specific people, rather than being abstract "good guy" and "bad guy" stuff.

Hence Darth Vader's key phrase in the middle of The Empire Strikes Back, "Perhaps ... he can be turned," which at the time seems to be a vile expression of corruptive evil (Bad) turns out to be a father's desire to protect his son (Good), which the audience can only perceive retroactively, during the dialogue in the climactic fight scene.

(Ducks! Yes, I know it was a Star Wars reference! But the game we're talking about isn't! OK! OK! I won't do it again!)

Anyway, that's my first thought about the possibilities of the system idea, although I admit it's openly imitative of a game that has influenced me highly. Any other similarly-focusing, but less-derivative approach would be good too.

Best,
Ron

[Mike Holmes]

So what if your Bad Karma pool gets really big. That's just more dice ot roll. I'm going over to the bad side of the Karma right now!

But seriously, what are the negative repercussions?

Mike