Escalating in conflicts without opponents?

[donbaloo]

Hi folks.  I'm curious how you experienced Dogs players handle those conflicts that don't include a a true opponent.  The rules state that when there isn't an opponent the GM uses 4d6 plus demonic influence dice for the opposition.  Got that. 

1)So now lets say that the conflict is to, I don't know, shoot the bell in the belltower at the end of the long street.  For some reason its important to the game and its declared a conflict.  So, the GM rolls 4d6 plus Demonic Influence and uses that to See and Raise against the Dog's Acuity and Will roll for gunfighting?  Is there any way for the Dog to "escalate" and pull in any other stats if he needed or is this conflict purely within the realm of gun usage and that's the stats he's using?

2)Same for the breaking a horse example in the Accomplishment section of Character Gen.  GM gets 4d6+4d10 dice to play the conflict with.  I'm assuming the player would be rolling Body + Heart since its a "physical" conflict?  Is it possible for the player to escalate in this situation and pull in other stats?  I'm not asking about traits here, I'm curious about actually escalating.  Is there some conflicts in which escalation just doesn't make sense?

3)Demon fighting.  So all Sees and Raises are done using Ceremony and the fallout dice for the demon or sorceror will be based on the ceremony used.  What arena does this take place in (effectively, which stats is a player using)?  Does it escalate like a typical mortal encounter, beginning with talking (represented through Ceremony) and escalate through physical violence or even something that can represent gun violence (both also represented with Ceremony)?  If so, does the Dog take fallout normally according to the arena in which the demon is Raising, while the demon takes fallout with complete respect to the Ceremony being used?

[Darren Hill]

Regarding escalation: it is perfectly possible to have a conflict in which the nature of that conflict means some forms of escalation (or indeed any escalation) isn't possible.
For example, in a healing conflict, you can't easily justify an escalation to shooting!
So yes, there are conflicts in which escalation (or at least some escalations) don't make sense.

Demons: I'm not sure here. In my games, my demons have always been acting through a possessed person or sorcerer, rather than acting directly. In this case, your last sentence is true: the dog takes fallout based on the demon's raise. The way I've done it, the demon doesn't take fallout at all - the possessed person or sorcerer does. Not sure if that's right though.

Your horsebreaking example: I could easily see an escalation from physical to non-physical being applicable here, as they engage in a battle of will and wits (embarrasing if the Dog loses!).

[donbaloo]

So basically just common sense and what feels right for the story?  If the player wants to go all horsewhisperer and escalate to talking and the group's down with it then its all good.

I'd like to hear more on the demon thing though from others.  I guess if you're dealing with a sorceror or possessed then all the standard arenas apply with standard fallout.  But you also have the option of throwing in ceremonies for color and these ceremonies change the fallout dice.  I'm still wondering which arena ceremonies take place within so I'll know what stats the players will be using.  They all sound like talking, so I'm guessing ceremonies are done with your "Non-physical" stats but do fallout according to ceremony type.  Also, if you were having a conflict with demonic presence, not a mortal vessel, its all gonna be purely Ceremonial fallout, Non-Physical arena?  That's my impression at this point...

[Vaxalon]

When you're rolling 4d6+Demonic Influence because there's nothing else to roll, then yeah... you can't escalate.  Almost all the time (unless you roll VERY well with those D10's) you're going to get splattered.  The best you can do is make them pay a price in fallout for it.

For this reason, you should usually be calling for conflicts that have people behind them.

[donbaloo]

Is it reasonable to expect situations like that Fred where, though the GM can't escalate, the player may be able to do it?

[Vaxalon]

Yep.  That's one of the reasons that the PC's typically win such conflicts, unless they have some reason not to escalate.

"I hope I dealt with a drunken Unbeliever without resorting to violence."

"I hope I learn to shoot straight."