Non re-entrance of BDTP and the Quickening of in-Game effects

[apoptosis]

Euro thank you very much for all you replies. They have helped tremendously.

I do have one other which we talked about earlier.

If you do something that costs points (used a secret that initiated a BDtP). Since the resolution did not happen (which is why you are in bringing down the pain) do you still pay the costs in pool points for that action.

Example.

PC#1 wizard casts Toad spell..cost the wizard 5 pool points against other PC. IT was not successfully resisted and PC#2 initiates BDtP as he doesnt want to be a toad.

Does the wizard pay the costs for the spell since the resolution didnt happen. If he does he then has less points during the BDtP.

My feeling now is that he doesn't pay the costs because the action never really occurred and that he would only pay for it if it then occurred during BDtP.

This seem to be of particular importance when using secrets that cost a lot of pool points, I wouldn't want my players to feel that they lost pool points and got nothing for their expenditure.

Apoptosis.

[apoptosis]

BTW..what about a secret that allows a swordfighter to force a perpendicular action in a martial combat during BDtP.

This is to emulate that he is fast enough to defend/strike an antagonist who is just trying to kill the swordfighter. Allows the swordfighter to protect himself from a kamikaze attacker, or possibly interrupt a wizard who is trying to blast him with a spell or an archer who is trying to turn him into a pin cushion (all parallel actions)

Secret of the swift strike.
When in a swordfight he can spend X points to declare a parallel challenge a perpendicular challenge.

I just thought of it and havent thought of the particulars yet (like the cost)

Is this too powerful, against the spirit of the system etc.

[Eero Tuovinen]

The way I play it is that the wizard will have to still pay for the toad spell, even if it didn't happen immediately. On the other hand, the spell still sticks around, and if the character doesn't stop casting it in BDtP (that is, he mostly rolls magical abilities and describes how, through the BDtP, he's still working to get the spell to work) it will take effect at the end of the BDtP. The character has, effectively, bought a right to having an intent that is rather out of the ordinary; most characters in most situations cannot hope to take on an intent like "I change my opponent into a frog." The spell is what allows the character to do this. If, during the BDtP, the character opts to try something else and redefines their intent ("Screw this, I'll draw my dagger!"), then the spell won't take effect at the end of the BDtP, as the character abandoned trying to execute it. What happens at the end of the BDtP depends on what was narrated immediately prior to the end and what the characters were trying to do.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be very unbalanced to have the spell not happen and not have the character pay for it, either. If I wanted to play it this way I'd have the character pay a small cost for it, though, so as to not have characters cast a lot of unacceptable spells to force opponents to BDtP for free. Most characters would insist on BDtP when an opponent cast Fall to the Sky on them, after all! Thus I'd probably have the character pay one point from each Pool involved in the cost of the Secret that was countered by the BDtP declaration - a small cost, but still something to pay for dredging out such a big hammer.

As for the Secret of the Swift Strike, entirely within the rules, although I'd make it a bit more powerful:

Secret of Steel
The swordfighting character may choose whether any actions against him in BDtP are perpendicular or parallel as long as his own action uses his sword. Such is the focus of the master swordsman. If another character has similar pregoratives, resolve perpendicularity normally. Cost: 1 Instinct per forced action.

[apoptosis]

I like the Secret of steel...will add it to my game.

I understand about the idea of people forcing the BDtP with the fall to the sky spell. I guess i was coming at it from the other perspective.

My feeling was that then most people wouldn't use spells (or any secrets) that have much cost until they were actually in BDtP as they wouldn't want to lose all the points for basically little effect (basically potential bonus dice, an effect they could have done much more cheaply).

Of course if I think through this, if they still stuck with the spell then it probably wouldn't matter that much which order they did it in and they would'nt have to pay any points for this spell during the BDtP anyways (makes them really try to stay true to their original intent/action). 

Hmmm your original way does make more sense the more I think about it.

I would think that the Toad spell is active during BDtP up until the end of the BDtP...he could switch to the dagger (as he is keeping the warrior away for time to spell to work) as long as his last action was rengaging the Toad spell (he kept him away long enough for the spell to work..using his dagger and he then switches his action back to the getting the the toad spell through)