a card game within an rpg?

[punkbohemian]

So, I've been thinking about how to deal with a resolution for a gambling skill. What I thought would be interesting is if resolution could occur, rather than with a dice roll, with a (reasonably quick) card game...something where the game is more based on skill than chance (so something like high-low wouldn't work) but could also be skewed in the favor of the more skilled player. For example, let's say two characters are gambling against each other. One has a skill of 4, the other a skill of 9. Perhaps then they are dealt 4 and 9 (standard playing or other) cards respectively, with which they play a game. However, I can seem to think of a game that is amiable to this setup. Anyway, you all can see what I'm going for...any tips on where to take it from here? Thanks.

[David C]

I think you're headed in the right direction.  How about something like this? 

1) Each player is dealt a blackjack hand. They are also dealt cards equal to their skill.
2) Each player then can play any card from their hand.  Once both players are done, they reveal their hidden card.
3) If they tie, the process starts over (except they aren't dealt cards equal to their skill...)
*At any time, a player can get a hit, as per the normal rules of blackjack.  If they bust, they lose. 

In this case, we've got a well understood game but influenced by the character's actual skill. 

[whiteknife]

I like the blackjack idea. Simple an effective.

[chronoplasm]

I'm not quite up on the rules of games like these, but does anything happen if you reveal the actual black jack card?

[David C]

Chrono, a quick synopsis of blackjack.

1) Both players have 1 hidden card, you can see all the other player's cards. (in this case, players would also have a hand, which is hidden until they play cards out of it)
2) Both players are trying to get the highscore.  If their score goes over 21, they "bust" or lose automatically.  They can ask for cards (a hit), whenever they want until the game is called.

The hidden card is basically a random variable, so you don't *actually* know if you're in the lead or not, until the game is called.

[chronoplasm]

Ah. I see...

That sounds pretty nifty. I'm sure that would be a fun element to a game.

punkbohemian:
Is that just going to be the resolution mechanic for the gambling skill, or are you thinking of using it for other things as well?

[punkbohemian]

the blackjack idea is interesting, and definitely in the right direction, but the casino-ish feel of blackjack might not mesh well with the theme of the game (which is somewhat of an early renaissance). However, I have to wonder how much skill is involved in this approach. Whatever the hand is, the player is going to pick the card that brings him/her the closest to 21 without going over. There's not much skill involved in that decision, which makes this like a randomizer that is just more complicated than a dice roll.

punkbohemian:
Is that just going to be the resolution mechanic for the gambling skill, or are you thinking of using it for other things as well?

About a day after I posted, I started thinking in the "other things" direction and how such a mechanic can be applied to resolution in general. Then, I started thinking about the relationship between player and character. It's ironic, in a way. For the player, resolution is pretty deterministic. If the player decides to resolve something, s/he rolls the dice, that is the only recourse. On the other hand, for the character, resolution is pretty much left to chance (skewed by skill, which can be altered by vying for modifiers in some/many situations). In both cases, the resolution itself requires virtually no skill ("skill" is merely a variable that alters the results).

I recently started wondering if there was a way to take this to the next level. Of course, this line of thought may be virtually irrelevant when talking about the character, and not really my focus here. But, for the player, I wonder if there is a way to develop an (objective) resolution that isn't so deterministic utilizing the various skill levels/difficulty of the player/character/situation/etc.

Anyway, I wanted to throw that out there and see what kind of discussion develops.

[David C]

Punkbohemian, I think there's a lot of subtlety to this mechanic you aren't even seeing. Like, when is it better to take a hit, or play a card from your hand? Also, often you won't have the cards in your hand to get to 21, lets say your hand is this...

3, 7, 9

and your cards on the table are 10 and 6.   You could play 3 and get a 19... but that's not a winning score.  Do you take a hit?

You could also apply the same concept to any other number of games.  Like Poker, you could be dealt 5 + skill cards, discard down to 5, and play poker...

Also, any game that you use that's influenced by character skill, is going to be less skillful then a game not influenced by character skill...

[punkbohemian]

Punkbohemian, I think there's a lot of subtlety to this mechanic you aren't even seeing.

You're absolutely right. I interpreted it wrong. I thought that each person was dealt a blackjack hand and then a number of cards equal to skill and then the players pick one card as a "hit" or stand with the hand they have. Your explanation clears it up. Thanks.