Creating a Very Minimal System (and running into trouble)

[mjbauer]

Bauer,
  OK, what about:
Toughness - This can be Mental, physical or social endurance, right?
Wits - This can be Mental, physical or social speed/ability, maybe?
Awareness - This can be physical, mental or social skill/reactions, no?
  The idea is that not only can you use one ability to amplify another, but you can use one ability in the place of anther if needed.
  Does that help?

[/quote

I like the idea, I'm just don't like the attributes you've chosen. At one point I was considering a system with 2 physical and 2 corresponding mental traits. So physical and mental strength (Might and Willpower) and physical and mental dexterity (Agility and Ingenuity). Maybe I can add a social aspect and make that work. (Appearance and Charisma? no.)

It's mostly the names for the attributes that I'm hung up on, I think the idea works.

[mjbauer]

I've never really given it much thought before, but it is kind of funny that when a project is rules light, the stats seem to be the first thing to go. I haven't done an exhaustive study, its just what I've noticed. It probably doesn't matter how many stats you use, its the mechanics that take time away from role-playing during task resolution. If your system is quick and clean, it probably doesn't matter how many numbers you have to plug into it at one given instance.

I've thought about this too. I thought that maybe more stats could eliminate skills. I tried to split Strength, Agility, and Intelligence up into two stats each (Strength: Might + Constitution, Agility: Coordination + Quickness, Intelligence: Ingenuity + Logic) and then rather than having individual skills like Run, Lift, Throw, etc., a character would just combine the two most applicable Attributes for the task. So "Throwing" it would be the combination of Might + Coordination. This way each skill could be tailored to meet the task, but every way I came at it seemed far more complicated than I wanted, and I was afraid it would just result in the need for a long list of skills and what traits applied to them.

Now, an interesting point that was brought up before was that really, you only have one stat (Resource) that you can use whole or break up for multiple actions. Why do there need to be three stats to add into one stat so you can break it back up again? Also, not having seen the rest of your character generation ideas, do most characters end up with the same Resource score, but just different individual stats? You mentioned the idea of maybe rolling back the stats to just moderating how you use your Resource score; they may be cool.

As for single-stat games: check out Sync in my signature box; its a one-stat mini-game that I wrote up for a contest. It only uses one stat, and might give some inspiration.

Yes, the challenge at-hand is giving characters individuality. I think this will come from a character's chosen skills, as well as some kind of perks & flaws system, but I think I need to improve on that.

I'll have a look at Sync, thanks.

Also, is there a setting or genre that you're leaning towards with this game. From the stat range you posted, it seems like you're just mapping the range of normal human ability (without going into the super-human range), is that accurate? Do skills play any part here?

The game setting is Cyberpunk, only lighter on the "punk" and heavier on the "Cyber". So there isn't a need to take into account super-human abilities (maybe slightly stonger cyborgs, but nothing game-breaking). And yes, skills are definitely going to have an effect on a character's abilities.

Thanks for the feedback. Good stuff to think about.

[mjbauer]

Sorry, quote fail.

Bauer,
  OK, what about:
Toughness - This can be Mental, physical or social endurance, right?
Wits - This can be Mental, physical or social speed/ability, maybe?
Awareness - This can be physical, mental or social skill/reactions, no?
  The idea is that not only can you use one ability to amplify another, but you can use one ability in the place of anther if needed.
  Does that help?

I like the idea, I'm just don't like the attributes you've chosen. At one point I was considering a system with 2 physical and 2 corresponding mental traits. So physical and mental strength (Might and Willpower) and physical and mental dexterity (Agility and Ingenuity). Maybe I can add a social aspect and make that work. (Appearance and Charisma? no.)

It's mostly the names for the attributes that I'm hung up on, I think the idea works.

[David C]

How about skills that eliminate stats?

[mjbauer]

How about skills that eliminate stats?

That's just crazy talk.

[Ken]

How about skills that eliminate stats?

That's just crazy talk.

i

Maybe not so crazy. If your stat range is mostly normal people, why does their have to be a range? Maybe Stats go out the window entirely, and its assumed that players are pretty much in the same realm of average, and you would calibrate your system that way. You could include perks and penalties for those who want to excel or fall short of the norm (and possibly give a bonus/penalty to appropriate rolls). Since experience will probably be your opportunity for character individuality, concentrate your ranking system in skills.

As far as stat-less gaming goes, I normally recommend RISUS (do a google search). Its good inspiration and a great model for rules light game design.

Ken