Need help thinking through my new game (long)

[Jared A. Sorensen]

It behooves you to go out and see Sonatine and Hana-Bi by Takeshi Kitano. Also, I'd concentrate on a specific type of OC as they're all different from one another in many ways and trying to do them all justice in one game...well, it's tough.

Unless the characters are criminals outside the realm of OC, then it's more do-able.

[Mike Holmes]

Toshiro,

You got it. Loser games refer to games like Paranoia, and Call of Cthulhu. In these games it is difficult to impossible for the characters to win out in the end. That's not the point of play. The idea in loser games is to see just how things go on the way down the slide. This is great fun to portray your character either villainously, or heroically as he struggles to climb back up the slippery slope at first, and then, at some crucial point, turns and begins to embrace the fall.

The really nifty thing is that it naturally limits the course of the game. Instead of just going on forever, you play characters until they die, are incarcerated for life, or go legit (difficult). That's a nice feature.

How do you see different PCs relating? Do they all start out as members of the same crew? And work their way up? Or do some get to start ad captians or bosses? How does that work?

Mike

[jjkahrs]

Toshiro,

First off, I'll say that I have only read the first post and none of the replies (I will later, just short on time atm). I love the setting and mood you're trying to go for. I would you suggest that you focus on the atmosphere and gameplay you want to encourage rather than what other RPGs have done. I don't think combat is as central to your setting as the the mechanics you listed make it out to be. There is a difference between combat in action stories and the short, brutal, and ugly violence that you find in movies like The Godfather and Road to Perdition. Try to think of different ways to resolve conflict rather than the standard RPG-style combat almost every game has. I think that if you move away from established ways of doing mechanics and ask yourself "Does this enhance the mood of my game?", I think you'll be a lot happier with the outcome.

BTW, I love the idea that as you become a bigger fish in the pond, more and more people want to eat you. Power comes at a price ;)

-JJ Kahrs

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Toshiro,

I understand your concern about micro-management, but I have been pleasantly surprised, over the last two years, that systems with things like "Loyalty Points" or "Relationship augments" do not devalue the role-playing, as many people seem to fear that they will.

I think the key is the Reward System of the game. In Hero Wars, one's character actually improves in effectiveness by increasing the strengths of one's relationships; same goes for The Riddle of Steel, and many of the smaller games here at the Forge. My new Trollbabe is based almost entirely on this idea.

So if the various loyalty or Family or whatever values operate in isolation, such that the character's effectiveness and improvement is driven solely by traditional things (ie success at using a skill, or merely participating, or accomplishing GM-set goals), then you'll run into trouble. Either people will ignore the personality mechanics, or they'll ignore everything but and make the game into a status-Gamist exercise. (My case study for this problem is Amber.)

But if you meld the actual Doing of Stuff in the system with the personality mechanics that we're all talking about in this thread, then wowsers - you're onto something.

Best,
Ron

[toshiro]

Bailywolf:

I love your suggestion. It would provide a quick and easy way to determine when dramatic combat is appropriate, and it makes perfect sense too. Thanks.

Jared:

Thanks for the movie suggestions, I'm going to see if I can find copies in any local video stores. Regarding the different types of OC, I was thinking of writing up a few pages of background and information for each major group, and then leaving the GM and players to decide which one they'd like to play with. I think this would enhance the setting and give a bit more variety to the game. Some people are fascinated by the Yakuza, some love the Mafioso style, and others want to play South American drug barons. I wasn't planning on having a lot of interaction between the different groups, just giving the players some details to work with. Per Bailywolf's suggestion I'm thinking of including a metacreation mechanic so players can create their own unique gang if they're interested.

Mike:

Gotcha. I was thinking along similar lines regarding the length of campaigns. Unlike D&D where characters keep levelling up until their obscenely powerful and the GM just can't give them any challenges, I wanted Family Ties to always have an end in sight (death, imprisonment). It's not a question of will the character's fail - it's a question of how they want to be remembered. I was also thinking of having going legit as some sort of Golconda (spelling?) from Vampire, where the players have to seriously role-play and turn their worlds upside down. It probably won't happen for 90% of players, but it's something worth trying.

Regarding player relations, I was thinking of having all the players start off as footsoldiers from one gang. After a few assignments to introduce them to the feel of the game, a higher-up will offer them promotion to the "captain" level. Or rather have one person be the figurehead captain and the of the players be his right-hand men. From this point things get kinda hairy as each player will have their own interests and motivations, but unless they work together they'll all get quickly eliminated. I'm still thinking about how to balance teamwork and individualism without having all the burden fall on the GM.

JJ:

Thanks for the encouragement. Your suggestion of altering the mechanics has been mentioned by almost everyone, and I'm taking it to heart. I'm in the process of coming up with a new system to emphasive murder over combat, and deal with the social aspects of the game.

Ron:

I agree that the Reward System is key to keeping the game focused. If the reward for roleplaying personality balances the possible negative in-game consequences, then players will be encouraged to do so. The most basic thing would be metagame "Karma dice" that can be added to crucial rolls, but seeing that getting good rolls isn't essential to the game progression, I'll have to come up with something more creative. ;)

What next:

Thanks again for all your suggestions. Almost all the issues I've been having are cleared up in my mind. I'm going to go back to the drawing board and develop those new mechanics. Expect to see a first draft in the next few days...hopefully. ;)

-toshiro