You ARE the bar

[Gordon C. Landis]

So, the last time I tried to design a game (as opposed to just extensively tweak an existing one) it involded taking a Japanese bayonet (which my father had brought home from post-WWII Europe - apparently, the Army kept sending troops over there for a while as part of the Marshall Plan or something) and swinging it at a pillow REALLY FAST to see how many to-hit attempts we should allow per 5 second "round".  Back then, I could have written Synnibar, or Imagine

This idea ain't nothing like that - and it won't go away.  So, in support of "post something, ANYthing besides GNS pontification", I offer up - The Bar.

The genesis of this idea was one of the very few Voyager episodes I've watched - actually, I didn't watch the whole thing, just the opening bit (no offense to Voyager fans, I just couldn't get into it).  It started on the holodeck, and the crew was acting out what looked like "Casablanca in Space", with Capt Janeway as the worldly bar owner, 7 as a sultry singer, and some alien race as stand-ins for Nazis.  I thought "wow, how 'bout D&D Casablanca?  Oh boy, it's a bar - what's the biggest cliche in tradition fantasy RPGs?  "You all meet in the bar".  This could go somewhere . . . "

The idea here is you play "The Bar", in the same way that you play "an Ork tribe" in Orkworld.  That is, each player will have a particular character, but the group as a whole has The Bar (the naming of which will deserve a good few pages in the rule book, no doubt).  At game inception the group can choose (point-based?  not sure yet) to make the bar a gamblers den, with ties to the criminal world, or a high-class joint attracting the finest entertainers (and maybe STILL ties to the criminal world), or maybe just a dive with very loyal locals that keep it going (I'm thinking one of the places Fafhrd and the Mouser might hang in Lanhkmar . . . )

Character types are only restricted in that they MUST have a close tie to the bar, or to another PC/NPC who is tied to the bar.  There's that worldy-owner Rick type, the sultry singer, a grizzled barman, a bouncer, the piano player, waitress, blackjack dealer, etc.

I need another element here - maybe premise is what I mean - and in the Casablanca theme, it would be the tension of an occupied city in wartime, some equivalent of Nazis and Frenchmen, against which backdrop  the characters personal issues play out.  So I need personal issues - Rick's girl-left-behind, loyalty to country vs. survival, personal friendship vs. practical consideration, things like that.

I'm also thinking of this as more like a "build yourself a bar-based RPG" manual rather than a 'true' game in itself - though that fantasy-based Casablanca might be an example.  The idea there would be this concept could fit any setting with a bar - 20's gangsters, the real Casablanca, a Bab5ish space station, whatever.

OK, I've got a bit more, but it's late and I'm out of steam.  Given the glacial rate at which my thoughts and actions on this idea are running, I'm sure you folks will have plenty to offer before I get much further - Jared will probably whip up a complete version (including a nifty new resolution system) by the time I wake up . . . :wink:

Gordon C. Landis

[Dav]

I kinda like this idea, but upon reading it, I felt it screamed for a "Once Upon a Time" or Soap-style of play.  The entire premise seems locked in to the small setting, with a concentrated group to play about with.  Combining these traits, you have a damn fine "storytelling" game (not WW).  Hell, you could even make it a drinking version of OUAT.


Dav

[Gordon C. Landis]

Oh, yes, that possibilty had not escaped me.  I'm currently thinking about this idea as having more "heft" than people seem to think - the bar is just the context, the focus, around which a story as significant individually as Casblanca's love story, or as important geopolitically as its' "clash of nations" backdrop, can be played out.

Needs lots of work, though.

Gordon C. Landis

[GreatWolf]

Ever read Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson?  It's a collection of SF short stories set in Callahan's bar.  You might want to pick it up (or hit your local library for a copy).  They were pretty good stories and might give you some ideas.

[Paul Czege]

Hey Gordon,

I'm currently thinking about this idea as having more "heft" than people seem to think...

And here's where I'm thinking you're harboring some insight into compelling game mechanics. With inspired mechanics, you've got a clash of nations backdrop (perhaps with characters that are iconic of various societal forces). With something less inspired, you'd have episodes of a potentially unremarkable bar sitcom.

Care to leak some of how you're thinking to accomplish it?

Paul

[Jared A. Sorensen]

An old idea of mine.

The Death Boat.

With so many people in the world, the ferryman Charon and his raft had to be replaced with a huge ocean-liner.  Of course, having that many people together all at once...well, romance happens in the oddest of places.  So now there's one more chance for love before you're claimed by the Underworld...

Isaac, of course, will be tending bar.

[Gordon C. Landis]

On 2001-06-30 14:21, Paul Czege wrote:
And here's where I'm thinking you're harboring some insight into compelling game mechanics. With inspired mechanics, you've got a clash of nations backdrop (perhaps with characters that are iconic of various societal forces). With something less inspired, you'd have episodes of a potentially unremarkable bar sitcom.

Ah, I only wish I could respond to this with a glimpse of my revolutionary, inspired mechanics . . .  but at the moment, all I've got to fall back on is the tired truism that great stories come from great characters.  It IS built into my notion here that the characters must have hooks not only to the bar, but also to each other.  I also suspect hooks into the "backdrop" will serve well - not strictly required at "bar build" time, as a scenario/GM could add 'em later, but knowing that by making your bar an underworld hang-out your're now at risk of getting involved in running weapons to the Resistance might make the process of building your bar more interesting.

Gordon C. Landis

[Paul Czege]

Hey Gordon,

Ah, I only wish I could respond to this with a glimpse of my revolutionary, inspired mechanics...

An incomplete concept I had is that part of group character creation would be defining descriptors for the bar. Rick's Cafe Americain might have descriptors of Love, Nationalism, and Authority, or something like that. The descriptors tell what the story of the bar is about. In this sense, defining the bar would be like defining aspects for Story Engine (which you don't actually define in Story Engine because they're fixed). Then individual character creation would be about assigning points to the aspects of the bar. Victor Lazlo would have high Nationalism but low Authority. Renault would have more Authority.

You could almost layer this onto Story Engine, except figuring out whether the aspect of a scene was Love or Authority might be substantially more awkward and difficult than using Matter, Mind, Spirit or Chaos. If the GM makes the scene about Love, then it throws the advantage to Ilsa at the expense of Strasser.

Well...that's why this is an incomplete concept :smile:

Paul

[Gordon C. Landis]

An incomplete concept I had is that part of group character creation would be defining descriptors for the bar.

Interesting . . . and easily consistent with the "template for designing a game centered on a bar" style that I'm thinking about.  Thanks.

Time to set aside some time to really develop this notion - letting other people poke at it hasn't discouraged me yet.  That's a good/bad sign :wink:

Gordon C. Landis  

[Jamie Thomas Durbin]

Ah, a forum which *hasn't* gone "pay-to-use"!!! I was quite annoyed with that whole Gaming Outpost thing! still...

It's a good idea, Gordon! And as to people poking at it, hey, it's all part of the design process, and therefore good, yeah? But still, I like the idea, as, all too often, roleplaying sessions tend to wander all over the joint, with no single locale around which lots of decent stories are made... only lots of "Epics" which aren't...

Keep it up, and keep us posted...

[Gordon C. Landis]

>And as to people poking at it, hey, it's all part of
>the design process, and therefore good, yeah?

Oh, most definitely good - that's the point of posting it here.  Please, poke more - let nothing I've said disuade anyone from poking.

It may be a few weeks, but I've started "real" work on this thing - you will be hearing more . . .

Gordon C. Landis