Mechanics for Abyssmal Earth

[Andrew Martin]

Another thing: Am I alone in wondering about "Abyssmal"? Abyssal is a word and abysmal is a word, but the form with double-s and m is not. Did you intend this? In my opinion, it's a little off-putting; it suggests that you misspelled, rather than trying to merge two words together effectively.

I was combining the word "abysmal" with "abyss."

Perhaps "Abyssal Earth" might be better?

[Gwen]

Perhaps "Abyssal Earth" might be better?

Call it whatever you'd like, my friend.  It's not the definitive name anyhow.  ;)


I've been continually working on different mechanics ideas and recently came up with one and thought I would see if it was a bad idea.

I'm assuming we're all familiar with the d20 sys and how you have a RANGED and MELEE attack rating.  Then you have random proficiencies you acquire, which means you can use the attack rating when using these weapons.

What I have tried to do is have these ratings for most everything, therefore nearly eliminating "skills."  The rating are:

Combat
Unarmed
Ranged
Melee

Education
Science
Craft
Mechanting

Experience
Lore
Socializing
Drive

And then these groups receive plusses and/or minus' based on the rank of the appropriate attribute (i.e. a high intellect adds to the education skills) and then there are racial modifiers as well.

With Science as an example, you add up your intelligence modifier, your race modifier and then add it to 10.  That's your Science Rating.  Then you have proficiencies that you get, say: biology, botany, physics, etc...  You purchase these instead of skill.

That way you really only have 9 numbers you ever need to keep track of during game play, but still have a wide range of skills available to you if you so desire.

(The same would work for Clerics, Psychics, Deamons, etc.  They would have a FAITH or SUPERNATURAL rating and then buy powers as "skills" for the appropriate rating.)

Does this sound useable?  Worse yet, it's stealing the mechanic directly from d20.  Is it a BAD mechanic?  No sense in having a system based around a broken part.

[Tony Irwin]

What I have tried to do is have these ratings for most everything, therefore nearly eliminating "skills."  The rating are:

Combat
Unarmed
Ranged
Melee

Education
Science
Craft
Mechanting

Experience
Lore
Socializing
Drive

And then these groups receive plusses and/or minus' based on the rank of the appropriate attribute (i.e. a high intellect adds to the education skills) and then there are racial modifiers as well.

Looks good Gwen, proficiency system means you as designer can leave skill selection much more open for players while retaining overall control of how the system works: "My last character died of poisoning - can I take toxins as a science proficiency this time?".

So what will the proficiencies do? Will they guarantee sucess or add a modifier?

And then these groups receive plusses and/or minus' based on the rank of the appropriate attribute (i.e. a high intellect adds to the education skills) and then there are racial modifiers as well.

This was interesting to read as my personal gripe with using attribute modifiers to interact with the skills is that it often seems like an admission that the actual attributes can't be made to "work" in the system. I'd be wondering (as I did in my AD&D days) what the point was in rolling up all these attributes in the first place. Why not just roll on a table that has "+1, 0, 0, -1, -2" on it if its the modifiers, not the core attribute scores, that are actually important to the game.

I understand that there could be statistical reasons for providing that extra layer, but have you considered just letting players roll/choose skill modifiers without having core attributes (of course that would mean you couldn't have basic attribute checks) the advantage might be being able to more easily tie it into (and insist that it be tied into) character backgrounds. eg "I get +1 to all education checks because after the aliens came my Mama used to read to me and my sister out of Baxter's Encyclopaedia of Science & Technology every night in the shelter." instead of "I get +1 to all education checks because of my high intelligence score" ;-)

Tony

[RobMuadib]

I've been continually working on different mechanics ideas and recently came up with one and thought I would see if it was a bad idea.

I'm assuming we're all familiar with the d20 sys and how you have a RANGED and MELEE attack rating.  Then you have random proficiencies you acquire, which means you can use the attack rating when using these weapons.

And then these groups receive plusses and/or minus' based on the rank of the appropriate attribute (i.e. a high intellect adds to the education skills) and then there are racial modifiers as well.

With Science as an example, you add up your intelligence modifier, your race modifier and then add it to 10.  That's your Science Rating.  Then you have proficiencies that you get, say: biology, botany, physics, etc...  You purchase these instead of skill.

That way you really only have 9 numbers you ever need to keep track of during game play, but still have a wide range of skills available to you if you so desire.

(The same would work for Clerics, Psychics, Deamons, etc.  They would have a FAITH or SUPERNATURAL rating and then buy powers as "skills" for the appropriate rating.)

Does this sound useable?  Worse yet, it's stealing the mechanic directly from d20.  Is it a BAD mechanic?  No sense in having a system based around a broken part.

Gwen

Hey I thought I would chime in with some feedback. As for Abyssal/Abysmal Earth, I had auto-corrected it in my mind to Abysmal anyway, hadn't noticed the extra s.  

Now, I think the above system would be fine. Consider, by making a detailed multi-layered Skill System what do you accomplish? The Proficiency System I made for my game has Proficiencies defined as the combination of one Skill, One Specialty, and one Familiarity, with each "level" being more specific. Then the Limit of each level of Proficiency Score is limited by half of the relevant Basis Trait, etc.

In addition there are rules for Skill Defaults, Complementary Proficiencies, etc. What does all this System provide for? Yep, exploration of System, as it relates to portraying a character. So, just ask yourself how important is Exploration of System, specifically system related to portraying characters? I am guessing it is not a major goal/thrust of your game.

So my recommendation would be to make a simple system that allows for reasonable differentation of characters, where that differentiation reflects the setting, but tailored so as to facillitate the major thrust of your game. Which as I understand it, is going to be exploration of Setting with secondary emphasis on Character.

HTH

[Shreyas Sampat]

Echo Rob.  The complex multilayered model of d20, and your take on the same, allow for effective EoS, but that seems not to be your goal.

So, let's talk about your goal, as it relates to mechanics.
What audience is this game aiming at?
What effect do you want to achieve with the mechanics?

Now, I'm not really an authority on your setting, but if I were running a WWwhichever game with demons and agents of God running around on God's green earth, I certainly wouldn't want to define closely what they were capable of.  Miracles and inexplicable acts of damnation are what the supernatural is all about.
On the other hand, I would also want to have a good strong idea of where characters fit into the setting.  This plays partly into knowing exactly what they're capable of.

What I'm suggesting is that you have elements that you've said you want to maintain "realism" with.  That's generally in line with Sim-style design.  Skill systems are pretty Sim.
But, you also have elements that cannot be portrayed in a manner even approaching realistic, because they are not real.  Angels, demons, psychics, etc., fall into this category.  I don't feel that the supernatural, as you've described it, can be effectively portrayed (not modelled, portrayed) with the skill system you're proposing for the remainder of your mechanics.

Consequently, I advocate that you have two systems running in parallel, one for mundane resolution and one for supernatural resolution.  The difference can be as simple as in description, like so:

Mundane skills represent methods, which you use to reach ends.
Supernatural skills represent your ability to reach ends, but you are free to describe their outcome with whatever method you feel is appropriate.

but I think it's essential.  I don't think it's sensical for angels to have skills like "Use Flaming Sword", basically, when you could have a skill "Vengeful Fist of God", which allowed that angel to do things like call down plagues, outright strike down the unfaithful, and deliver intimidating decrees from on high, all of which convey God's displeasure, but in different ways.

[Gwen]

I don't think it's sensical for angels to have skills like "Use Flaming Sword", basically, when you could have a skill "Vengeful Fist of God"

That's a good idea.  I will probably work in certain proficiencies that are specific in the result, but vauge in the execution, leaving it up to the character (or GM) to decide what the actual affect was.

Essentially, I'm not going to be developing a revolutionary system, nor am I trying to make a complex, in-depth system.  I'm just gunning for a system that's simple, but thorough.

Someone had asked what proficiencies do, as in adding modifiers.  Essentially, each character is going to have 9 ratings, no matter what.  The only thing is, you can only use these ratings if you are performing a task that you are proficient in doing.

For example, you can use a Flaming Sword and use your Melee rating, but only if you are profieicent in Flaming Swords.  (This is just an example.)  However, if you use a Flaming Sword and you are NOT proficient with them, you will incur a negative modifier and risk setting yourself ablaze.

I have been working on this system and I figure the game will be done before X-mas, i hope!

[Gwen]

Originally I had the idea of using these nine categories as the basis for all ranks:

Unarmed
Ranged
Melee
Science
Craft
Mechanting
Lore
Socializing
Drive

But it occurs to me that perhaps not every skill could fit under these categories.  So I would like to ask for suggestions on the categories.

I want to make sure that they will be comprehensive, so that way there aren't any skills that are unable to fit anywhere.

I think Unarmed, Ranged and Melle cover pretty much every aspect of combat, but when it comes to knowledge, Science Craft and Merchanting leaves a few holes.  Where does history fall?  Or literature?

So will these skills singled out, the categories for Knowledge aren't completely comprehensive.  So would someone help me comprise a list?

[Tony Irwin]

Originally I had the idea of using these nine categories as the basis for all ranks:

Unarmed
Ranged
Melee
Science
Craft
Mechanting
Lore
Socializing
Drive

But it occurs to me that perhaps not every skill could fit under these categories.  So I would like to ask for suggestions on the categories.

I want to make sure that they will be comprehensive, so that way there aren't any skills that are unable to fit anywhere.

I think Unarmed, Ranged and Melle cover pretty much every aspect of combat, but when it comes to knowledge, Science Craft and Merchanting leaves a few holes.  Where does history fall?  Or literature?

So will these skills singled out, the categories for Knowledge aren't completely comprehensive.  So would someone help me comprise a list?

I kind of feel that the danger of trying to get something that feels realistically comprehensive is that the skill system can become less relevant to your game world. For example from reading your original thread it seemed like a knowledge of religious myth would be absolutely vital to any character in your game. So it might be more comprehensive to have a category like "Social Science" and then let someone have a proficiency like "Religious Studies", or "Occult History", but if knowledge of the occult is a core skill in the game then I'd expect to see a system that values it - that makes it clear "Your character doesn't need Economics as a skill in this game folks, this game's all about Religious Armageddon". Obviously combat is going to be a big part of your game, and you've made that clear to the players by having 3 out of 9 categories deal purely with combat. If an understanding of religion/occult is the main way that characters will make sense of the world around them then have you considered ways of getting your skill system to reflect that?

On the other hand... having a skill system that tries to reflect a regular 20th century way of looking at skills and learning, is a pretty good way of showing that your characters are just regular people not that different from the players but who are suddenly caught up in bizzare biblical disasters beyond their comprehension and control! So I guess it depends on what kind of message you want the skill system to send (or even if you want it to send one at all)

Anyway I'm enjoying reading all your stuff Gwen, looking forward to more :-)

Tony

[Gwen]

RATINGS

COMBAT
Unarmed (Strength + Racial Bonus + misc. bonus')  1-20+
Melee (Dexterity + Racial Bonus + bonus') 1-20+
Ranged  (Perception + Racial Bonus + bonus) 1-20+

KNOWLEDGE
Science (Education + Racial Bonus + bonus') 1-20+
Craft  (Creativity + Racial Bonus + Bonus') 1-20+
Technology (1/2Education + 1/2Creativity + Racial Bonus + bonus') 1-20+

EXPERIENCE
Lore  (Intelligence + Racial Bonus + bonus')  1-20+
Social  (Charisma + Racial Bonus + Appearance + bonus')  1-20+
Drive  (Reaction + Racial Bonus +bonus')  1-20+

XENO
Holy  (XENO + Racial Bonus + Bonus') 1-20+  (Angels, Clerics, etc...)
Curse  (XENO + Racial Bonus + Bonus') 1-20+  (Demons,  Cultists, etc...)
Mind  (XENO + Racial Bonus +Bonus') 1-20+ (Psychics)


Bonus':  Each rating can be affected positively or negatively by the following types of bonus':
Theological  (Angels or Deamons)
Technological  (Cyber Implants or Computers)
Psychological  (Psychic)
Biological  (Genetic Engineering or BioImplants)

Characters who do not have supernatural powers do not have a XENO rating, but are able to use more Technological or Biological bonus'.
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SKILLS

Skills do not have ratings, you either have the skill or you don't.  Each skill has a RATING it is associated with.  If you have the skill, you roll 2d10 and try to roll a number under your rating.  If the number is lower, , you succeed in the task.

If you do NOT have the skill, but attempt it anyhow, you have to roll lower than the appropriate rating, but with 3d10 instead of 2d10.

Certain skills will be listed with prerequisites.  You can only learn STUNT DRIVING if you already know CAR DRIVING.  You can only learn NUCLEAR PHYSICS if you already know PHYSICS.

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XENO POWERS

Xeno powers are selected like skills, but executed differently.  XENO POWERS are categorized by what they accomplish.  HOW it is accomplished is up to the user.

For example, a character might select FLIGHT as a power.  When they use it, it is up to them if they fly with wings, if they jump great distances, if angels carry them or if they walk on air.

Another example,  a character might select RANGED ATTACK as a power.  Even though it is a ranged attack, it still uses the XENO rating, because the execution and aim is all meta-physicsal.  It is up to them to decide if the damage is caused by a flaming sword, a holy beam of light, a psychic-propelled bullet or a grenade of hellfire.

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CREATING SKILLS OR XENO POWERS

Once a skill or Xeno power has been lerned, the character can learn a new skill or xeno power, or they can advance the ones they already know!

For example, if someone has RANGED ATTACK as their Xeno power and they are able to advance later, they can change RANGED ATTACK to UNLIMITED RANGE-RANGED ATTACK or MULTIPLE SHOT-RANGED ATTACK.  New powers or skills should not advance too fast.  You cannot go from the PISTOL skill to UNLIMITED RANGE-MULTIPLE SHOT-QUICK DRAW-PISTOL.

All advancements should be approved or created by the GM and the GM is free to not allow any advanements he feel would unbalance them game.




This is just what I have so far,  I'm working on racial bonus' for the deamons and angels, trying to make everything balance out relatively well.