Narrativist Space Trader

[Andrew Martin]

Andrew,

Your original post on Space Odessey actually inspired this whole line of thinking.  I was also reading InSpectres and I thought the same techniques could create a Star Trek rpg.  I did some work on this.  I've posted it in the Memento Mori Forum under
<a href =  "http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40826#40826" >Space Trek </a>.

- Alan

Great! :)

I must get some more done on this project. After reading your post, I realised I had forgotten log entries. I'll have to add them into Star Odssey.

[Tony Irwin]

Very simple. You are confounding Director Stance empowerment with Narrativism. Note how Sorcerer has none of this sort of stuff, and is still Narrativist. What these games have, and your's does not, is some way to focus attention on the Premise. Mike

Ahhhh! I think I'm finally getting this - so you're saying that Director stance doesn't make it a narrativist game? Right... Yeah because gamist players can use Director stance to turn the game their way like in Donjon right? In fact even Sim players could use it to make sure their characters are doing the kind of stuff that their characters would really be doing right?

Hmmm, so I suppose what I really want isn't a narrativist sci-fi game, I want a sci-fi game with strong director stance for the players. Yeah that's making sense - I guess the Decipher star trek stuff really does have narrativist options, but its the lack of director stance that ticked me off after buying it. I'd much rather play Universalis or Donjon in the star trek world.

Hell, I've just realised - narrativist games suck!* I've no interest in asking the gm, "I'll turn left, what do I see?" and "How many honour points do I lose". Geez, I guess games that give me some director stance are what I really want - regardless of whether they're Narrative, Gamist or Sims.

Thanks Mike, I think that's sorted out my confusion!

*Narrativist games do not suck.

[Tony Irwin]

Sorry guys, I don't want to hi-jack Alan's thread with questions about GNS but Im getting confused...

To make it narrativist you would have to inject some kind of Theme like, Do you have a duty to a Human Society that you never see. Where the crux would be does the character act carefully and prudently to safeguard human societies interests in these things, or does he do what's good for him.

Too easy, possibly not pertinent to the setting/situation, but just to get the juices flowing, how about, "What does it mean to be human?"

I'm confused because doesn't exploring moral choices through playing a character represent sim play? Even though the exploration is confined to moral issues its still the player enjoying the opportunity to simulate being a space trader in a difficult moral situation right?

So am I right in saying that playing a premise with "What does it mean to be human" is just as sim as "What does it feel like to pilot a ship through asteroids"?

[Mike Holmes]

I'm confused because doesn't exploring moral choices through playing a character represent sim play? Even though the exploration is confined to moral issues its still the player enjoying the opportunity to simulate being a space trader in a difficult moral situation right?

So am I right in saying that playing a premise with "What does it mean to be human" is just as sim as "What does it feel like to pilot a ship through asteroids"?

Nope. That's exactly the difference between Sim and Nar.

The defining aspect of Narrativist play is that you are "exploring" or addressing, or making descisions about, a Narrativist Premise. Which is further defined as a moral or ethical question of interest to the players. That's what people don't get. Narrativism is not about "creating a story" except that you further define "Story" as that which is created by addressing such a premise (that's intentionally circular to point out why we avoid the term story when talking about mode).

So, "exploring what it's like to dodge asteroids" only involves Sim or possibly Gamist decisions (do I go left or right?). Whereas "exploring what it means to be human" can only involve moral and ethical decisions about that meaning and is hence Narrativist (do I kill the replicant?)

And, yes, what you may want is Sim with director stance. That's what I want. I agree that Narrativism is not the end-all goal that some people think that this site propounds it to be. It's just one possible choice. Story as "an interesting series of events" (Sim) is just as interesting to me as Story as "the adressing of a moral or ethical question" (Nar).

Mike