Indie Web Portal, Anyone?

[Emmett]

That sounds like what RPGnow and RPGmall does already

Not remotely! As has been stated, many Indie publishers have tried to go it alone, and have already built up a website. RPGnow provides a service that I do not take up because I do not have one hundred percent control over. I wrote a RPG because I wanted to control it and how it develops. I do not have that ability once RPGnow is handleing my game. Mind you, I'm not badmouthing the service, just stating a fact. I probably would have already sold a lot more than I have, if I had availed myself of their services. For those Indie writer/publishers who want to have their own website, that is who I'm talking about availing themselves of this portal.

However I don't mean to discriminate against RPGnow/mall. They are publishers just like I am attempting to be. However anyone with their own website knows that you have to advertize and have a network of connections on the net to get anyone to your site. The portal also is a way to introduce your game to a customer without a hard sell.

Basically the portal would be a coalition of RPG publishers. I would like to see a focus on equality among peers even if one peer is more equal than another (RPGnow already has a customer base etc and have got me beat as a publisher hands down).

So the difference is, if you are a RPG writer and do not have the desire, money or ability to put up your own website, publish through RPGnow. If on the otherhand you are subborn enough, can squeeze out the dough and know how to, be your own publisher put up your website and join this portal.

[rpghost]

First, I'm not in any way looking for an argument or even a log discussion, but Cowboy, I just don't understand some of your comments.

Why do you loose ANY control posting your product to RPGNow/RPGMall? All we are is a store front. We inforce no controls over your product and you make up your own product image, description, demo, etc. If you sell just from us you can even still link to your website for all the usual fan fair.

We are not publishers. Why do you call us such? Why do you think you'll loose control over your product if you sell through us? We're just a store.

On top of this you want a portal, which would give you the same type of exposure as RPGNow/Mall does, but without the already 20,000 userbase. Not that I'm against a portal, just that I don't understand why you wouldn't want any/all exposure you can get?

As I said, I'm not looking to argue, just trying to understand your point of view so I can maybe address it.

James
RPGNow/RPGMall/RPGShop

[HinterWelt]

Let me just throw in quick here. First off, I want to say I am pleased with RPGMall and how it works. I will say this, though, James, that you do put controls over aspects (no the publishing) of a company who does business with you. For example, you (rightfully so) restrict linking back to sites that offer their game for sale. Please do not read that as trying to pain RPGNow as an evil empire because I am not. It is a form of control though and I simply consider it the cost of doing business with RPGNow.  


If I may through out an idea, I guess I am thinking such a portal would be more than what is provided on RPGMall. I don't think cowboy is suggesting the indie portal sell games but be a repository for reviews, designer bios, company bios and game write-ups. To an extent RPGMall allows this but in a far less sophisticated manner. I may cram everything into a single page but that becomes one really big page. 8-D

Just so my position is clear, I would have no problem with RPGNow/Mall providing these services but I realize that you guys need to sleep and eat so this might not be high on your priority list and understandably so.

Just my thoughts,
Bill

[rpghost]

As I said, I can understand the need/desire for a portal and I'm all for it. That's not my point.

The one fact that we won't link back to your site if you don't sell exclusive with us is not a form of product control or loss of such. That's what I don't get... how do you loose control over your product by this one rule we do inforce?

Why is that what keeps some people from using RPGNow at all? Where is the sense in that? How many publishers out there refuse to sell at a hobby store cause they don't supply their customers with a phone number to order their product directly? Where is the difference? We're a store, you place your product on our shelf and we sell a good amount of it for you without you having to worry. You can still sell else where. You can still sell it directly on your own website. We simply just don't supply them with the 800 number to buy from you after they are in our store.

James

[HinterWelt]

Let me stress James, all in friendly discussion mode. Remember, I am in RPGMall and believe in it. I intend to get hooked up with RPGNow when I get the products in place that will work best for both of us. That said, I think cowboy (not putting words in his mouth) meant that you are enforcing a manner of control over his effort.

One part of the effort has to be selling. Another is a persons website. You enforce a manner of control over these. Again, I say it is a cost of doing business and that is NOT a bad thing it is merely a cost. Some would find it too high. I find it graciously low.

As for a LGS supplying direct order info. In a way they do for us. We put our site in our book and our site links to RPGMall. The customer could look in our book and decide to try and find it cheaper on the net and end up at our site the RPGMall and buy it there. That said, I cna still see it your way to limit traffic off your site and into another that sells competing products. B&M stores are feeling the same about RPGNow and the PDF sales that they believe are stealing traffic from their stores.  But that is for another thread.

Hopefully this helps some...
Bill

[Emmett]

Sorry for not chiming in, I was working my day job.

HinterWelt speaks well for me in my absence. Perhapse I can be more sussinct but I'm not entirely sure that I can. First is the notion of control, it really is kind of a silly thing, but I'm not talking about control of the game itself, I am talking about the portrayal of the game on the website. Other than a write up and cover art, I don't control what the customer sees. It's about as silly as me objecting to someone else dressing my child even if I knew the person had good taste, just not my taste. I don't really have a better way of saying why I go with my own website.

As far as the "publisher" question. A publisher is an entity that publishes, or distributes a work. In that light RPGmall/now is a publisher you are the delivery device in this model. Yes you are also a store but old terms kind of get all muddled on the interweb. (Oddly, does that make the Browser the store? Never mind I don't want to think about it.)

James, if this is bothering you, PM or email me.

Sadly I feel as if this thread, although garnering attention is not the attention I had hoped for. I think HinterWelt and Gideon have been my only "Yay!"s, and I got two other "eh"s. So once again, to force the point, if you, gentle reader have suffered through all this, you have a game and/or a website and you feel like the idea might have merit, say "Yay!". If not say nay and be done with it.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey Cowbody,

Ultimately, you're going to have to decide for yourself regarding the merits of your plan. The internet forums are actually a pretty poor place for getting a survey or poll type of response. You're right that comparing what you're doing with RPGmall, et al., is getting away from the point.

The goal of this thread is a little murky to me, though. Since no one can tell you (in a "for sure" way) whether this is a good idea, there's only one thing to do ... to do it. That's really the only way, since we're working with a new medium and new technologies.

I support any and all ideas that might serve independent RPG publishing well, so for what it's worth, I'm all for it. But given that your vision of what you're doing is apparently clear, all that remains is implementation.

Best,
Ron

[Paul Czege]

Hey Emmett,

...I am talking about the portrayal of the game on the website. Other than a write up and cover art, I don't control what the customer sees.

Absolutely. You've got indie in your blood. The issue for the indie guy with any of the online pdf/pod malls is complex. They aren't exactly print-on-demand, requiring no outlay of funds from you, because actually you pay for copies of the game to be printed in anticipation of sales. They aren't exactly a store, because they don't buy product from you in anticipation of selling it. And they aren't exactly marketing, because what they deliver is a one-size-fits-all version, based on the Amazon.com model, aggregation of product and customer reviews. Which isn't to say they aren't providing valuable services. You may be able to get your books printed for cheaper, but coordinating the printing of a book can be a big hassle, so it might be worth a little extra to have them do it for you. Also, the malls do fulfillment, which most folks find to be a pain in the ass as well. And the Amazon.com retail model is pretty powerful. But if you think the best way to promote your game is with actual play posts, or with blurbs from reviewers, or a web-ring of fan sites, or forum discussions, or a more art rich presentation, then maybe the charges you'd incur from having your product on one of the malls don't seem like they're worth it. So I have to believe that if you can deliver aggregation of indie product along with some level of customizable presentation, that your portal would be embraced by the indie community.

Paul

[HinterWelt]

Let me know your thoughts. I whipped this up pretty fast in my copious spare time. It is meant entirely as a point of discussion and should be considered in a liquid state.

Thanx,
Bill

PDF about 100K

http://www.hinterwelt.com/thoughts/Initial%20Requirements.pdf