Core idea for a diceless system, looking for comments

[Anthony]

I've always liked the idea of diceless karma driven games, but never the implementations I've seen.  Of course the only own Nobilis and I read someone else's copy of Amber long ago, so take that with a grain of salt.

I always seemed that conflict resolution in those two systems was lacking, I can't exactly say why.  In fact I'd just play a totally freeform game than a "diceless" system, and while a freeform game can be fun now and then (especially say on a long car ride) I don't think I'd really want to sit down and game a freeform game.  So I've been toying with my own system and wanted to throw it out there for any comments.

Every character is a list of traits with numerical ratings.  So the hulk might be Big: 10, Strong: 10, Angry: 10, and Green: 10, while RatBoy the stereotypical thief might be Thiefly: 5, Wiseass: 2, Run Away: 2, Cute and scruffy: 1.  Normally the game is played freeform except when there is a major conflict, or when a player wants direct control over the narration.  At this point the player (which can include the GM) spends a trait point related to the action and gets to narrate a sentence or two to move the plot in the direction they wish.  The GM would spend the point for an NPC, normally in response to a players actions.

Example, BigBoy the Bruiser has been searching for RatBoy the Thief, who he knows has important information he needs.  Having found him BigBoy says "BigBoy goes up to RatBoy and slams him against the wall, telling him 'you'd better tell me where BigBossBoy is hiding if you knows what is good for you,'" then spends a "Big and Mean" trait point and adds "RatBoy knows better than to try to mess with someone this tough and tells him that BigBossBoy is at room 435 in the Hotel Lux, registered under the name MeakSalaryManBoy and adds that he is pretty sure he's got the entire hotel under pretty good surveillance."

Immediately after a player uses a trait point someone else can use a trait point to counteract that use in a way that fits with the original trait's use.  For instance RatBoy could spend a Run Away point say "screw this, RatBoy sees that Big and Mean ugly tower of muscle coming over and decides he'd better get the hell out of here before he gets his arms ripped off.  He vanishes into the bathroom and out through a window, scampering off and vowing to lay low for a little while."

If a trait's use is counteracted like that you have option to either Back Down or Escalate.  When you Back Down you get back the point you just spent and the other player can now choose if they want to spend their point as well.  If the first player backs down but the second doesn't nothing more can be done, by backing down you have lost your chance to spend a new trait point in order to influence the scene.

For instance, BigBoy decides that he is going to Back Down, saying "BigBoy seems RatBoy slide out of his chair and start to bolt for the bathroom and realizes he isn't going to be able to get there in time and so he curses fate and goes back to the bar to get a drink and let BookBoy know what just happened."  RatBoy now has a choice, he can spend the point anyway, fleeing and getting the hell out of there, or he can choose to sit back down and edge away later.

If you Escalate you are basically spending a trait point to counteract the other player, who then has the option of Backing Down or Escalating himself.

If a player is caught in a situation where someone is using a trait against them and they wouldn't know it if it happened, they can still counter but they have to do so before knowing what they are countering.  They are given the chance to counter and then if they say yes they are told what they are countering and can choose what trait they counter with.  So if RatBoy is using a trying to enter the castle of MageBoy who has made it clear he keeps protection spells in place, MageBoy will jsut be asked "do you want to counter?" and if he says yes he will be told "someone is trying to sneak into your sanctum, how do you respond? (where he could then use a Magic trait point, trapping RatBoy in a block of ice until MageBoy has time to go down and demand a favor for his release).

The idea is that trait points are kind of scarce and although I'm not sure how they are gained back it will be slow enough that players will generally try to go about the game freeform, with traits being used for major encounters or when a player wants to a stronger say in the plot, because you can use a trait point to add information into the world.  A research point could be used to "discover" Dr Evil's key weakness for instance, and the player spending the point could make it up.

I'm a bit worried with my lack of experience with diceless games that I'm either reinventing the wheel or I'm going for a system this is going to make for way unfun gaming.  And while I might have a shot at getting some friends to play a diceless game, if it goes badly I know they are going to be a lot less receptive to the idea in the future.

[Mike Holmes]

I've always liked the idea of diceless karma driven games, but never the implementations I've seen.  Of course the only own Nobilis and I read someone else's copy of Amber long ago, so take that with a grain of salt.

Active Exploits from Politically Incorrect Games is another example of diceless. But I think that is shares most of the problems that you have with these other systems, and I can sympathize. I haven't seen the new Marvel game, but it's supposed to have a few interesting facets to it that might be pertinent.

I always seemed that conflict resolution in those two systems was lacking, I can't exactly say why.  In fact I'd just play a totally freeform game than a "diceless" system, and while a freeform game can be fun now and then (especially say on a long car ride) I don't think I'd really want to sit down and game a freeform game.

I can empathize, but I think that we have very different reasons for not liking the existing systems.

The idea is that trait points are kind of scarce and although I'm not sure how they are gained back it will be slow enough that players will generally try to go about the game freeform, with traits being used for major encounters or when a player wants to a stronger say in the plot, because you can use a trait point to add information into the world.  

Hmm. How about narrating to the character's flaws gets you points? That's pretty standard in these sorts of situations. The character fails at something because of some flaw, and the player narrating it gets a point.

You have a very light system here, which means that there's little structure for the players to lean on. I'd suggest that it'll succeed or fail based on how well your players would like Freeform play. See, as players narrate, they'll constantly be negotiating through qustions like "How much is one point worth in terms of plot or action?" Intrepid players can work these things out, but other players will be put off by it.

Mike

[TheRedSoup]

Marvel's game creators have done, in my opinion, a nice job of going diceless, and kept the superhero feel.

Your stats are rated 1-10 and you have ACTIONS and MODIFIERS.
Actions are anything you can DO.  Such as computer skills, black ops, close combat and even optic blast and web-slinging.  Modifiers are traits that are always a factor, such as enpowered senses, adamantium bones and claws, and toughness.

Your main attributes Strength, Agility, Intelligence, Speed and Durability.  Health is equal to your Durability and Energy equals three times your health.

The main thought is this, that the character can succeed in an action as long as he places enough stones of energy into that action.  If he doesn't then of course he fails.  Cyclops has 9 energy and an Optic Blast of 9.  He could if he wished place all nine stones of energy into the action or just a few depending on how he wishes to use the action.

'Stones' are what you use to keep track of how much energy you have at one time.  White stones are used for health, and red for energy.  Every panel, also known as 'turn', you gain back red energy stones equal to the amount of white health stones you have at that moment.

I truely hope this isn't confusing.  I'm writing quick so that I can leave work.  Ask any questions you like and I'll answer as best as I can.  I do like that game.

Eric, The Red Soup