Distributor Question

[Mystique]

Hi all,

 I was hoping to find out what distributors fellow small publishers have used in the past / or are using, and what experiences you have had with the company.
 While I have had limited success in FLGS taking a chance on a direct-from-publisher relationship, there are countless other store that have responded that they only deal with distributors (that is...those retail stores who actually took the time to reply, and I appreciate those that did!).
 As I said...just wanted to know which distributors folks have used.

Thanks.

Mike

[talysman]

nor do I, but here's something that's food for thought: I talked to a friend of mine who just published his rpg; he has a couple online locations to sell through as well as some kind of FLGS option.

sales through the gamestores are yielding him a profit of 25 cents.

TWENTY FIVE CENTS.

I dunno the details of his cut through other outlets (and wouldn't disclose it anyways,) but it's definitely more than 25 cents.

I think I'm going to stay away from the three-tier system...

[jdagna]

Mike, I think I replied to your post already in it's RPG.net incarnation.  For everyone else, I'm currently selling through Esdevium (UK), Lion Rampant (Canada) and Blackhawk (US).

You're right that most retailers won't buy direct, even when given a good deal.  They almost always cite simplicity reasons (fewer orders means easier book-keeping, etc), but often there's a hidden reason: they use distributors as a way to filter out "bad" stuff.  They often think that, if a distributor doesn't think they can sell to stores, the stores will have trouble selling to customers.  Frankly, I can't fault either line of reasoning.



Talysman, it sounds like your friend needs to adjust his retail price or his production methods (or both).  You should be able to offer retailers 40%-50% off the cover price, and offer 60% to distributors.  To make money on this, the production cost shouldn't exceed 20% of the retail price, and many of the larger publishers will say 10%.

I think the three-tier system is well worth the effort.  Last year, two orders from distributors represented almost 1/3 of my total sales (that's dollar-value, not quantity).  One more order so far this year represents 1/5 of my sales so far.  While you do make less per unit sold, the number of units goes up dramatically so you may still see more money.  However, it is a big effort to get into distribution and my analysis assumes certain goals (like making money) that may not be true for everyone.

[daMoose_Neo]

I don't mean to butt in, though this may help as well-
When going through a distributor, how many units do you actually sell?
Myself, I'm ending up with about 1600 units in my first printing (12 units to a case, so about 130 retail cases), and I'm wondering what distributors actually buy up.

[Dav]

I use Blackhawk, Esdevium, Pegasus, Lion Rampart, and Diamond as my big boys.  I DESPISE Alliance.  They take forever to pay, get bitchy when you pester them about checks, and... well, never mind.

Anyway, I suggest strongly getting ahold of the LMP guide.  It lists EVERY distributor in the US.  You see, the bigger distributors buy books from you, then sell to stores and other distributors.

So, you find these smaller regional distributors, and sell like a bastard to them.  They are friendly (generally), pay on time, and tend to genuinely want to move their product (thus,s ending promo material to them to send with each order actually works with regional distributors... I have my doubts regarding the big boys.

In general, when we began as a new game and company, we moved just shy of a thousand units to distributors on our first three months.  I would expect 500-1000 to go out the door pretty quickly.  We sold in boxes of 28... and most companies order by box.  I think the big boys tended, in the beginning, to buy 3-10 boxes, depending on region and company.  Smaller distributors may buy in half-units (meaning 14 in our case for a core book box), and sometimes ask for books by the copy, but again, we tend to move in bulk units.

Also, regional distributors will buy from you at a better price than the big guys.  Find how much they buy from Alliance at, reduce it 5%, and it will STILL beat what you sell to Alliance for.  Seriously, a little legwork and a day at the phones, you have all the contacts you need in the distribution houses.

Dav

[Mourglin]

Just my 2 cents.  When I ran my retail shop, I was annoyed with Alliance at times.  They always padded the orders without notice.  So when you expected to spend 550.00 on product the UPS guy would come in and say 700.00.  Even after repeated calls to sales reps this still continued.  It got to the point that we just refused orders and told Alliance that we are not going to do further business with them until they sent exacly what I ordered or at least called me to say bla bla X is in for you shall we add it.

It just threw a huge wrench into weekly budgeting.  Then there was always the out of stock problems.  Or how they allocated you short of what you pre-ordered when a hot item was released.  We got short changed to many times IMO.  GW was/is notorious for doing that. ( but the product was nice quality to be sure ).

I didn't order much direct from manufactureres but did on occasion.  The habit of going via a distributor is more out of a convenience factor.. In theory its like WalMart.. one stop shopping for all you need.  We used Blackhawk, Greenfield when they were around, Chessex/Alliance and ACD.  In addition I did business with RZM Imports (military books), Verlinden/VLS, and a small handfull of others.  The most I ordered direct from a maker was 3-4 times over the span of a year or so, and that was Columbia Games (Harn and the Blocks stuff), which as much as I liked their games, they never really sold well.

Mourglin

[Mystique]

Thanks for the follow-ups to these posts.  I am trying to solicit distributors now, though this seems as though it can be a frustrating task in itself.  Thanks again for the tips and suggestions.

Mike

[Mourglin]

Mystique,
  I would look at it this way.  Even though you are soliciting, they are making money off of you and if your product is good, it will sell itself anyways.  The question is, how fast do you want to move it.  It's one thing to have a distributor buy from you and another if they are going to take some effort and promote sales for you.  Personally I have some expectations implied when/if the time comes for me to make these choices.  I believe its good business to get something in return for an extra discount.  I've been on the retail end and its very evident how much a distributor can influence sales to retailers, believe me.


Mour

[HinterWelt]

Mystique,
  I would look at it this way.  Even though you are soliciting, they are making money off of you and if your product is good, it will sell itself anyways.  The question is, how fast do you want to move it.  It's one thing to have a distributor buy from you and another if they are going to take some effort and promote sales for you.  Personally I have some expectations implied when/if the time comes for me to make these choices.  I believe its good business to get something in return for an extra discount.  I've been on the retail end and its very evident how much a distributor can influence sales to retailers, believe me.


Mour

Just a quick point, you do get something for your extra discount to distributors...distribution. I know it is not a popular view here but distribution to retailers is a useful tool. Even if only as a means to introduce your product. Attempt fulfillment on this scale sometime, it is neither cheap nor a lot of fun. That said, you should not be selling through the tiers if you cannot make money that way. 25 cesnts is not much but it is in the positive. Distributors can influence sales enormously, I wholeheartedly agree, but it is a tool like advertising, the internet or direct mailings. You need to ask yourself if it is for you. If you are content to sell 50 copies in a year then distribution is probably not for you. Distributors want to carry products from companies that want to sell their product. You might say, "Duh! I want to sell my product." But really think about it. Do you want to sell product or do you want to sell your work of art or you life long creation. Neither is right or wrong but it does determine your strategy.

Back to the post, we use a fulfillment house called Impressions. Aldo has gotten us into Esdevium, Alliance, Lion Rampant, Blackhawk, ACD, Bowker, Diamond, Mindsports, RPV, Hobbies Hawaii, Centurion, Welt Der Spiel and Ulisses Spiel.

If I was going to recommend distributors that have been good to HinterWelt as small press I would SRONLY suggest ACD and Blackhawk. Two very good companies. I have contact info on my site under Retailer Support.

A final note, and this is not directed at anyone, please do not fall into the trap of "I have a great game so it will sell". You could have the greatest game in the world but it will not sell one book if people do not know about it. By know about it, I am talking the whole thing, concept, what makes it different, why should I buy it and do they recognize the title.

Good luck,
Bill