Toughness discussing again!

[bergh]

MY SOLUTION TO THE TOUGHNESS VS STRENGTH ISSUE.
problem: TO10 human is imposible to kill.
Solution: Toughness is also about size/race!

In our gaming group we have decided that TO6 is the maximum for normal humans, but 7 can be reached, be a few heroic individuals like Conan :-).
We had said for now that toughness 5 is maximum, without receaving some special training and such. This is ofcourse not including racial modifers. so the hardy dwarf would still could reach above human level, something the dwarfs are know to :-)

as we give toughness a maximum, we have also given Strength a maximum of 7, without racial modifers. but we still have not closed the access to above 7, just that is NORMALY the limit. 8 could maybe be reach but would cost VERY MUCH EXP to reach, and special training.

We like it this way becouse then the players don't just focus on ST/TO alot in combat, and no one can be so tough, so that a normal human (ST4) can't have a chance hurting you even with a sword, its just plain stupid!
and also look at the weapons +st bonus's, and relate them to the Toughness value. When having TO10, a normal human with a Greatsword should even hit you with a couple of good success in his margin, just to give you small cut, this simply don't work for me and my players.
keep toughness around 5-6 max and st around 6-7 as a maximum, solves the ST/TO question. lets keep all the other stats at 10.

also we play with that if you hit a guy with a weapon and he have no armour at all, and the damage becomes a level 0 dam. (if ST3 hits a TO5, with a knife and only have 1 in the margin of success), then he get bleeding 1 or 2 no matter what!, no mans skin is hard enough to resist a sharp metal blade.

hope im not to confusing.

[Tash]

Sounds perfectly viable to me.  My group hasn't run into the problems of rediculously high TO yet, but I'm sure we will.  When that happens we will probably use some kind of simillar rule.

My own PC has a ST of 7 and the rest of the group has noticed that when he lands a blow it really, really hurts.

[Prince of Thieves]

Heres how I monkey with the system because I too was worried about toughness 10 man.  

Soak = Toughness/2 + 2

Therefore toughness 10 man now soaks 7. A Huge number, but still mortal.
Also the soak of an average guy(toughness 4) remains unchanged so it perserves the intent of damage vs toughness.

[bergh]

Hi Prince of Thieves.

Wow that is a good idea, its simple, and then you can still keep the TO10 for tests other then soaks (are there other?)

Anyway this also means that getting high toughness cost ALOT of EXP, which is good, maybe better then my system.

only trouble is when dealing with me trolls fx. who got To11
then they only would soak 7-8...which is to small a soak for such a large creature (we are talking LoTR type troll).....

[Tash]

Just take that into account when creating NPCs who you want to be extrodinarily resiliant.  Or give them a natural AV of 4-5 because of their super tough hides and layers of troll blubber.

[Prince of Thieves]

Thanks bergh, glad you liked it.

I use those soak rules only humans and "Soft like human" troll-spawn.

I reduce Gols as a man but not Hef or giants(Or at least I intend not to, haven't had any Hef or giants in my games).

Also I generally let animal soak stay unchanged.

[Overdrive]

Wow that is a good idea, its simple, and then you can still keep the TO10 for tests other then soaks (are there other?)

...

only trouble is when dealing with me trolls fx. who got To11
then they only would soak 7-8...which is to small a soak for such a large creature (we are talking LoTR type troll).....

Hmm... Doesn't something smell funny..?

OK, your cave trolls have TO 11. How on earth could mere man have TO 10?! He would have to be at least 8' tall and 500 pounds, or more! I mean, look at the troll in the movie, how could a man match its toughness?

It so is that the maximum starting number in any attribute is 7 without some national modifiers (which, I think should only apply for PCs and major NPCs -- not *every single* Cyrinthmeiran citizen have TO of 5). And that is with priority A in attributes. And the character has only one stat at 7, since it has to be the high stat. With B priority, there just isn't enough points to put 7 in a single attribute, or else you end up being crippled in others.

See, problem solved! Since the practical limit is 7, it can easily be considered "Conan-like". With ST and TO at 7, you're pretty much like Conan, and everyone notices. With WIT of 7, nobody can match your witty repartee, you can fire insults and compliments like no-one has ever heard. You'd be the most liked (and feared) courtier in the court, and with some skill in Intrigue, can topple marriages, kingdoms, etc.

I mean, TROS lets you build a character you want, within certain limits. You want Conan, so be it, although you might need some insight bonus prioritites. It shouldn't be necessary to build attributes to superhuman during game-time. It should be accessible to you right at the start.

This is how I play, at least.

[Edge]

we have had players kill monsters with TO above ten... SA's help allot

[bergh]

To overdrive:

look at the first post, there i totaly agree with you on the limit should be 7 in most stats and such, and MAYBE be advanced through game play.