D&D3.5: Eberron Setting First Session: Info Dump

[ADGBoss]

I am going to cover a wide range of ground here, some history, some conjecture, and obviously some actual play.  I am going to try and stay professional and intend to delineate between what I think (opinion), what I know, and what I have heard or read.

First a few Definitions:

Corporate Gaming Model: A Term I have come up with for defining a style of Game Design represented by TSR/WOTC; White Wolf; and other larger RPG companies. Related to the Supplement Treadmill, Old School,  and other ideas.

Info Dump: To the best of my knowledge it's a (literary?) term that basically describes a huge amount of information dumped to the reader all at once and at roughly the beginning of a books or scene.  Any that's how I am using it, though anyone who has a better definition or can clean up mine is welcome to do so.

Core Mod: A term that describes RPGA modules (mostly for Living Greyhawk) that can be played by players from ANY region. They tend to have a notorious reputation as being particularly shoddy, railroadish, and brutal. No slap at the volunteer writers who write them but some people (not all) tend to feel that the quality of the Core Mods is not very high.

Power Gamer: A gamer who is interested in making a character who takes advantage of the rules / mechanics so that the character is optimized in it's chosen situation. This is the basic definition of Power Gamer I tend to use and it is not meant to suggest any G/N/S modes or even to be a negative statement.

Ok, so a friend and member of our local gaming group purchased the new Eberron setting for D&D 3.5.  This is the setting that won the Design a Setting contest.  I myself entered that contest and obviously did not win.  I need to say that because by several people I have talked to this setting about have accused me of being jealous. Well yes I think there is a cause for some envy, they chose him and not me and I am one of thousands who no doubt feel that our design was better.  Well that's neither here nor there and in no way do I want to take a swipe at Keith Baker, the setting's developer.  Mr. Baker has a pretty good imagination and some neat things have popped out of Eberron.  Also note that Eberron is being billed as Fantasy / Noir. I am not enough of a literary historian / scholar to be sure THAT combination is even possible. It adds in some Steampunk. A curious mix but not necessarily a bad one.

So anyway, since I have a great deal of DM experience and am considered by some to be a good DM/GM I was asked to run the adventure that comes in the book and also the first adventure that has been published.  This first post deals with the adventure that comes with the setting book, called the Forgotten Forge.  Now, this seems eerily reminiscent of a D&D 3.0 generic Module called The Forge of Fury.  Frankly I mean what's the obsession with Forges? Well ok a minor quibble but I feel like its intellectual laziness with regard to the over use of certain ideas.  More on that later.

Character Creation and Setting Introduction

Ok first off let me say that Eberron is one big Info Dump. Three hundred pages of Bing Bang Boom. Almost everything you need to know about the world is included in the book. Well I suppose the idea is to a) give the players a "variety" of locations and things to do and b) its standard Corporate Gaming Model to lay down a big expensive book at the start.  Why is that? Wouldn't it be just as (or more) successful to make a smaller book with a grand history but smaller focus of the world, to introduce it piece by piece and thus produce more books or supplements? Now perhaps from an economic standpoint, financial success is better with the Big Book up front.  With a game / setting that is shipped with the rule set, sure I can see it making some more sense. Yet Eberron does not need to have the rule set, its 300+ pages of new feats, items, spells, and background.

It is also a "Power Gamer's" wet dream.  It is very easy to create a character from the options provided that thrive in their chosen niche. However, the three player's I had testing the setting chose to take somewhat different paths.  Their characters were interesting and not at all optimized for the rules.  We had a Dino-Riding Halfling, a Human fighter, and a Human Cleric to the Power of Summoning Demons and Devils. All three were experienced role players and experienced D&D 3.5 players. So Char Gen was quick and fun.  We had decided to play the module from the setting and the published module to get a feeling for Eberron.  

Session I: The Forgotten Forge

We sat down at the table and finished character creation.  The module begins in the huge city of Sharn and we decided that prior to the adventure starting, the three had shared an adventure and the Human Fighter had invited his friends back to Sharn.  So they arrive and go to a tavern so that the three characters could get better acquainted. It was soon evident that they were a bit unscrupulous, which was fine but the group was certainly NOT heroic. I am sure they were waiting for the typical Tavern Bomb to drop but oh no, the module had a much different idea for beginning play.  I did my best to both let the players be free and also stick close to the Mod's encounters. This would change but

They left the tavern and traveled a bit to the first scene. Where there was a body on a bridge and cloaked figure. Well its Noir-ish I think but bleedingly predicatable and assumptive. This is where the module begins and shows its RPGA Living Greyhawk Core Mod roots/ influence: you basically have NO CHOICE. The module assumes you are going over to the body and then when the PC's do they get attacked. Well what if the PC's do not go over? What if they leave?

Well the players obliged, knowing what was in the offing but playing along anyway. After the beat the first opponent (again the mod assumes you kill the creature) there are more contrivances. The Watch comes, the PC's run, some mysterious stranger asks them for help.  Well I mean WTF, if these ass-monkeys has known their messenger was going to be killed or at least how to find the PC's, presumably they could have protected him from ONE killer.  A very weak rogue. Of course we would not then have a module to play.

Basically it was here that the conveyor started, ending up in a typical Module ending where you cannot walk ten feet without something trying to chew your face off.  Then comes the hollywoodesque One More Thing. Another foe attacks you trying to steal your item blah blah blah...

Through the process the player's stayed in good humor, keeping me in a good mood, and really riffing off one another.  So the game was good but the module was horrible. It was utter trash. Written by Keith Baker, I do believe I really don't blame him. He is after all only following the CGM.

I mean where did the idea come that modules begin with a shady figure in the tavern and end with a boss! Many people say "Old School" and "1st Edition D&D". Ok so maybe the 1st Edition didn't have great story writing but it was a hell of a lot more imaginative then this. It is not even a D&D 3.5 problem, it was a not a system issue but a setting issue and the prevailing attitude that modules have to be so... linear and unimaginative.

Now we are going to play the published Module as well, why you ask? If we are having no fun? Well I feel like I need to give the setting and Mr. Baker a fair shake. Personally between the horrible intro mod and Info Dump nature of the book I doubt we will continue this campaign for very long but one never knows.

Sean

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Sean,

I really like your terms.

In all fairness, I've learned that the introductory scenario is often the very worst section of a new rulebook, and that often the game system rules are capable of far more variety and depth. I tend not even to consider the intro scenario as an example of play or representative of the game - just as an assumed add-on which in many cases really is a throwaway.

Why are they often so bad? I speak from saddened game-author experience: because it's very difficult to believe that any "gamers out there" are going to share your own Creative Agenda. So you write a railroaded Situation with a lot of fights for the Gamists, hence allegedly satisfying what you perceive to be "story gamers" and "power gamers" at the same time. It doesn't work, of course, but I think that's the mind-set involved. The author simply doesn't believe that he or she should write for an audience with a similar Creative Agenda. I'm guilty of this myself.

I also think that in many CGM game texts, the author is assuming a complicity between GM and publisher based on purchasing - "Buy this game, and it puts you in charge at your gaming table. We'll give you material so you can get the uber-imagination cred, and the power to keep them from hosing you like they do all the time. Oh, and to keep this going, buy more." This unspoken, rather nasty contract prevails pretty widely, based on my conversations with many freelance game designers and text-filler writers.

Best,
Ron

Best,
Ron

[Vaxalon]

What you call "Info Dump" I've always heard termed "Expository Lump".

[Marco]

The scenario in the book (or published immediately after the book) is usually the first time someone has tried to write a for-published scenario.

This is a big freaking deal.

A huge amount of what I like about gaming (and I speak for a lot of people here, I can safely say) has come about in the company of friends. I've run for new groups--I've run blind--I've had great games that way ... but ... when I sat down to write a scenario for people I didn't know at all I had no idea how to do it. My notes were useless--they were geared towards people I gamed with. So it became a way to try to present (which meant force) the *experience* I had running a game (with my group) to someone else (force it *on* someone else).

I was pretty pleased with the results until I got some negative feedback, looked at it, and went "yeah. that's a weak effort."

I agree with Ron. Don't put too much emphasis on the scenario in the book.

-Marco

[ADGBoss]

Ron

I agree, the Intro Adventure is usually awful and yes, to be fair Eberron is only guilty of doing the same thing other games / settings have done. I don't want to paint the author as an idiot or unimaginative, but the Intro Mod certianly was.  From my own experience with Noir, which I state flatly is very limited, once you got past the dead body, the mobster hitman (claoked figure) and arriving cops (city Watch blowing whistles) the Noir fades quickly away.

So I am hoping for something better in the second mod, the printed mod called Shadows of the Last War.  We shall see.

Vaxalon

Yes that sounds familiar, and may be the more used/useful term. Thanks


Sean

[ADGBoss]

The scenario in the book (or published immediately after the book) is usually the first time someone has tried to write a for-published scenario.

This is a big freaking deal.

A huge amount of what I like about gaming (and I speak for a lot of people here, I can safely say) has come about in the company of friends. I've run for new groups--I've run blind--I've had great games that way ... but ... when I sat down to write a scenario for people I didn't know at all I had no idea how to do it. My notes were useless--they were geared towards people I gamed with. So it became a way to try to present (which meant force) the *experience* I had running a game (with my group) to someone else (force it *on* someone else).

I was pretty pleased with the results until I got some negative feedback, looked at it, and went "yeah. that's a weak effort."

I agree with Ron. Don't put too much emphasis on the scenario in the book.

-Marco

Hold on though. I understand that Keith Baker is probably  a first time author etc and although I am not intending to vilify Keith or whoever wrote the thing, that fact is that IT IS CGM all the way.  Thats how everyone does it and its how most large and a few small companies do it. Just because everyone does it that way does not make it acceptable behavior. It may be unavoidable but it does not mean we should shrug and say oh well.  Shouldn't the buying public demand more?
They could haev dropped the price $1 and thrown that garbage up on the website as  "Free" download.

So while I am not going to condem Eberron or its creator(s) after one game session, it is very clear they are starting off on, what to me, is the wrong foot.  

Edit: Corrected Spelling and added:

Drawing on the RPGA experience again there are MANY authors, some first time, who have cranked out nice Modules for people they had never gamed with before.  So it CAN be done.


Sean

[NN]

Let us know how the "proper" adventure gets on.

Particularly: are the "unusual" features of Eberron used in the module ? And if they are, do they help make it a decent adventure?

[Vaxalon]

I understand that Keith Baker is probably a first time author...

No, he's not.

http://www.bossythecow.com/resume.html

[ADGBoss]

Let us know how the "proper" adventure gets on.

Particularly: are the "unusual" features of Eberron used in the module ? And if they are, do they help make it a decent adventure?

will do. We should be trying the Published Mod this weekend. I have already started Prep Work on it.


Sean

[Marco]

I'm not saying you're wrong to criticize the scenario--just that it might not be indicative of the author's intentions for the *book*--it might be--but I wouldn't count on that as a generality.

I found writing adventures to be a much different animal than writing books of setting and mechanics.

-Marco

[Ron Edwards]

Hey guys,

Let's not get into the whole thing about a specific author and the intentions he may or may not have, or what a given publisher should or shouldn't have done.

I don't think any of us are disagreeing about how the CGM contributes to slipshod add-ons in game texts. This is an actual play discussion, though, so let's stay focused on that.

Best,
Ron