[Skein] Playing a Family Across Generations

[Jason Morningstar]

The design goal is to model things like the Laxdæla saga or the Godfather films, asian dynasties or fantasy monarchies, epic tales that span generations and encompass many heroes and villains.  

The family is the only real "character", played collaboratively by all participants and spanning all play sessions.  Players introduce individuals who are born, age, and die - these are the most important family members of their generation, the people who make some kind of mark on the family forever.  But even so, they are only grace notes in the broader tale of the family, and they rapidly fade into history and then legend.  

Mechanically, players introduce individuals who survive, at most, three "eras" - through youth, adulthood, and old age.  While they are in play, they impart some values or traits into the family, for good or ill, which will probably stick after their passing.  When they die or are retired from play, the player introduces a new individual and the family moves forward.  The goal is a constantly changing cast that defines and illuminates both the family itself and the times in which it finds itself.  I'm thinking the standard set-up will be one era, which encompasses 20 or 30 years, per play session.  

Over time, a shared history and myth will develop, as once-played ancestors become memories.  Invoking their names and qualities should have some positive effect.  

There should be a central conflict in each era that will be confronted and addressed by every player-controlled individual in some way, with the results changing the family in interesting ways - possibly diminishing it, or remaking it, or even destroying it.  

A mini-campaign of "American immigrants in the twentieth century" might be framed by the big conflicts of the century:  Great War - Depression - World War Two - Sixties social upheaval - End of the industrial revolution/Cold War.  Over the course of such a campaign, each player would introduce at least two, and as many as five, individuals related to the family in some way.  

So, some questions -

Can you suggest RPGs that touch on multi-generational play?  Pendragon and Ars Magica come to mind.  Do the White Wolf games have provisions for this?  Other games I don't know about?  What about a single community-owned character?

How does one define a family?  I'd really like to develop a system that clearly illustrates the impact of individual choice and societal change.  I have no idea what that looks like yet.  I'd value your comments.

Thanks for your input!

[contracycle]

I have seen several tentative proposals along these lines, I think it is a potentially fantastic idea.

Pendragon has some family type stuff.  For example, you might determine which significant battles your father had been in, IIRC.  The game used a "winter phase" as a sort of intermission between actual play sessions in which manor management and family record keeping was performed.

Aria, Canticle of the Monomyth, while not strictly generational had some interesting approaches to describing whole groups in much the way we might describe characters with attributes.

I seem to recall the AD&D Bloodlines product might have had soem generational ideas as it had a thing for bloodlines.  Anyone know more?

Erm, more if I think of any...

[sayter]

I really like this idea....the only problem of course would be keepign everyone interested and having a plot that worked cohesively. But, that is rarely a problem to a skilled GM/Director/Storyteller :)

  I, sadly, am not remembering any products with such examples of play. However, seems that Narrativist or Simulationist style games are definitely your best bet in this regard.

[TonyLB]

You define a family by how it impacts its members.  And you define the members by how they change the family.

The Corleone family is (in many ways) defined by Michael's complaint:  "Just when I thought that I was out they pull me back in."  There are families that let people escape, but the Corleone's are not one of those families.  And Michael, in trying to get out and failing, becomes a different man than any of his brothers.  And then, in turn, he changes what the family is, so that the next generation faces different challenges, has different restrictions.

I think you're absolutely right about the three eras of the character.  I'll add a recommendation:  the characters have different rules in the various eras.  In youth, they have the most power to change who they are.  In maturity they have the most power to change the family.  In age they have the most power to change the younger generation.  As to which is their greatest legacy?  Who can say?

[Jason Morningstar]

Thanks for the comments.  I've played Pendragon and we moved ahead at one year per session, just long enough to see the children of the original PCs come into their own.  I also ran a game based on the Icelandic sagas, and really wanted to tell sweeping tales of the Ætt and Friðavigr, but I think being intensely focused on individuals rather than the collective makes this pretty much impossible.  It's like watching a three minute action sequence instead of the entire film.

For some reason I'm drawn toward a competitive model in my thinking about this potential game, with players working with conflicts and personalities that push the family toward their own agendas, calling in memory and tradition as reinforcements to support their various world views.  I think this stems from the notion of a single shared character in the form of the family - give people some meta-conflicts to add spice in the absence of individual "ownership".  Not sure if this is misguided or not, but everything is wide open at this point.  Again, I appreciate the feedback!

[Jason Morningstar]

Couple more thoughts -

Not sure it needs a GM.  I think it could be very self-contained, a la Polaris, with each player serving as hero and nemesis of the family in turn.  The long march of time this game would encompass would make things like prophecy and curse (whether metaphorical or actual) very viable and resonant.  

Tony, my initial idea was for the elder (an individual played for the thrid straight era) to have the strongest (only?) access to history and memory, maybe with the ability to fashion myth and legend as part of their contribution to future generations.  Youth, of course, do not have access to the past but are very powerful in the now.  So we're on the same page here!

[Andrew Morris]

Jason, sounds interesting, and I'd definitely listen to Tony's advice. As to the game being competitive and GM-less, I definitely think it's possible, even beneficial in a game like this.

Interestingly, one of my far-off, once-I-finish-the-dozen-others-I've-got-in-mind games is something almost exactly like this. I was planning for each player to take on the role of a noble house in a fantasy setting, competing with the other houses for control of the nation.

A few of the ideas I had were that character advancement was up to the player -- they could either strengthen the house (their consistent "character"), or take a chance on improving their current noble, and hope that the positive traits were passed on through the generations.

As I conceived it, the game would have required at least four players. On player was active, and the other three performed GM duties. The character to the player's right and left were either the "loyal subordinate" or the "betrayer." However, the active player never knows which is which, since they both appear to be loyal. The fourth player would be the GM in the traditional sense, coordinating "the rest of the world."

Anyway, that's all I had in mind when thinking about this sort of game. Feel free to use any of that if it's useful.

[Master Marx]

However, seems that Narrativist or Simulationist style games are definitely your best bet in this regard.

Why? I think this idea could more easily be adopted to a CCG or a board game. With a good set of interesting rules it should be able to make any Gamist drool with excitement! :)

[Jason Morningstar]

I'm with Marx on the gamist angle.  No trouble there, as far as I'm concerned.  Fleshing out some ideas, please comment - should a player be allowed to switch agendas freely?  Do the trait breakdowns for different ages make sense?  What kind of currency am I looking at here?  

Core components

THE PLAYER comes to the game with an agenda of his choosing.  Guiding the family toward this secret agenda will be central to the play experience.  Players define the nature of the setting and family as a group, and introduce individuals to the game.  

THE FAMILY is a composite character being gradually built, modified, and torn down by the players as a group.  It may be a clan, noble house, or even a criminal syndicate - but it lives and breathes through the actions and choices of individuals who spring from the family or are bound into it, even as it outlives them.  While the family outlasts individuals, it is not immortal - it can be stressed, and injured, and destroyed.  

AN INDIVIDUAL is a person tied by blood, kinship, obligation, or antagonism to the family.  Individuals are not "player characters", although they are created and controlled by players.  They are by definition the most important people in the family of their era.  The reason for their importance may be obvious, or they may not become clear for generations.  Individuals consist of a name and a handful of traits that are added to the family during their lifetime.  If they make a deep impact, some of these traits will outlast them for a while, or in rare cases, forever.  

AN ERA is the time it takes a newborn to reach adulthood, and an adult to reach the maturity and wisdom of the elder.  Each session of play will define an era.  Individuals can be introduced as youth, adults, or elders, and they age accordingly.  Thus, a player can control an individual for, at most, three play sessions before being required to create a new one.  Each era is defined by a central conflict that will change the family and, possibly, cement traits that will influence future generations.  

AN AGENDA is a metagame goal a player explicitly sets for himself.  "Corruption" and "Power" are examples of agendas.  Agendas are never articulated and are always kept hidden.  A player can change his agenda at any time.  

TRAITS are unique and noteworthy features, good and bad, of both families and individuals.  Individuals can invoke family traits, and families can acquire traits from individuals.  

Individuals in their youth have the most power to passing their own traits along to the family, but have great difficulty in calling on family traits.

Adults are opposite - they can easily call on family traits, but have great difficulty in passing their own traits along to the family.

Elders cannot call on any traits at all, but excel at bringing out traits in their juniors, particularly youth.  It is with the aid of elders that traits can become permanent fixtures of the family.

[Andrew Morris]

Fleshing out some ideas, please comment - should a player be allowed to switch agendas freely?  Do the trait breakdowns for different ages make sense?  What kind of currency am I looking at here?  

Well, my comment is that these are questions that no one but you can answer.

In general, I like what you have so far. The abilities of the three age groups seem off to me, though. It's just my impression, of course, but it seems like the young should be able to use their own traits more and family traits less, adults should have average ability to use either, and elders should be able to use their own traits less and family traits more.

[Jason Morningstar]

Thanks, Andrew, I'm still poking this with a stick to see if I want to pursue it, so I'm interested in people's ideas.  I know in the end it'll be what I need it to be.  I appreciate your feedback.  

I started out with the sort of diametric model you propose, where elder and youth mirror each other, and it still is a good way to go.  

I was thinking youth are headstrong, likely to make an impression, filled with passion (adding traits to the family) but also stubborn, prideful, and convinced they'll live forever (not able to take traits from the family, going it alone).  Adults can mirror this nicely, with less passion but more wisdom.  Then you have elders, who can become very interesting to play if they are kingmakers.

[Andrew Morris]

One other random thought on this concept -- you might want to consider the family as a "base" character. That is, any character from that family will have a standard set of traits, abilities, what-have-you. Then, you apply a template to that base to create each character.

So, for example, a particular family might have a high level of ability in political intrigue. Then, if you apply the template of a political schemer, you'll get a character with very high ability in political intrigue. If, on the other hand, you apply the template of an honest, straightforward soldier, you'll have a lower ability in political intrigue, but suprising abilities in other areas.

This would allow fast generation of characters, and you could put in some amount of customization, if you wanted to.