444 and 345 only options?

[Sindyr]

That's an evil idea - and by evil, I mean awesome!

Neat.

[Adam Biltcliffe]

No-one's mentioned this out yet, so I figure I may as well point out that if your sole concern is effectiveness at winning conflicts, I'm pretty sure the "best" setup is to take three powers, one powered style at rank 5, four unpowered styles at ranks 1 through 4 and four attitudes. That way you maximise the number of checkable abilities while still retaining a fifth-rank power you can use as often as you want to roll any dice except a 6.

Not that I'm actually advocating the position that your sole concern should be effectiveness at winning conflicts, you understand.

[Andrew Cooper]

Adam,

I'm pretty certain if you take 3 Powers that they have to be numbered 1-3.  You can't just plop a 5 down on them.

The optimal effective setup is to take all the Debt-generating Powers you can and absolutely ape-shit with them.  The benefit of having Debt is way better than the cost of having to roll down a die at the beginning of the Page.  Plus, with Powers you can reuse them every Page and never have to worry about not being able to react to another Player's rolls.

[TonyLB]

I'm pretty certain if you take 3 Powers that they have to be numbered 1-3.  You can't just plop a 5 down on them.

That's correct, but Adam was saying to take three powers (in one column, numbered 1, 2, 3) and then five styles (in a second column, assigning the high number to a powered style, like, maybe, 1, 2, 5 powered and 3, 4 unpowered).  That's a solid build, which I use fairly often myself for effectiveness-focussed characters.

[Andrew Cooper]

Ah... okay.  I misread that.  I will now go hand my head in shame.

[Sindyr]

No-one's mentioned this out yet, so I figure I may as well point out that if your sole concern is effectiveness at winning conflicts, I'm pretty sure the "best" setup is to take three powers, one powered style at rank 5, four unpowered styles at ranks 1 through 4 and four attitudes. That way you maximise the number of checkable abilities while still retaining a fifth-rank power you can use as often as you want to roll any dice except a 6.

Not that I'm actually advocating the position that your sole concern should be effectiveness at winning conflicts, you understand.

This is a really interesting strategy - this is the kind of info I was hoping to be schooled on.

This build seems to give the most oomph for the least necessary debt.  This gives you 4 powers, so you still have plenty of opportunity to create debt when you want to, still can stake and split.

I guess the only thing lacking in this build is the reverse build, 5 powers, 4 Styles, 3 Attitudes gives you the ability to react on a 4 three times per page, whereas the above build gives you the ability to react on a 4 three time the first page you use it, but only once on each subsequent page. (because the non powered abilities will already be checked off.)

Both set-ups seem to have equal opportunity to create, stake and split debt (Being able to get 4 debt per page is probably all you would need).

Perhaps a slightly more reactive template would be: 3 powers, 5 styles with #4 and #5 powered, 4 attitudes.  What do you think?

Also, are there any rules about how many and which Styles must be powered when generating a character by hand?  Can I have 5 Styles with no powered Styles, or ALL powered styles, or anywhere in between?

Thanks

[Adam Biltcliffe]

I guess the only thing lacking in this build is the reverse build, 5 powers, 4 Styles, 3 Attitudes gives you the ability to react on a 4 three times per page, whereas the above build gives you the ability to react on a 4 three time the first page you use it, but only once on each subsequent page. (because the non powered abilities will already be checked off.)

Is there a rule I've missed saying you can only use a powered ability once per page? (If not, I don't understand what you mean.)

Also, are there any rules about how many and which Styles must be powered when generating a character by hand?  Can I have 5 Styles with no powered Styles, or ALL powered styles, or anywhere in between?

Click-n-lock characters will never have more than three powered styles and two unpowered styles, but I don't remember there being anything in the rules for creating your own characters that prohibits all your styles being powered or all being unpowered. Tony's comment upthread kind of implies that you have to retain the balance, though. Unfortunately I don't have my book here at work to check.

[Sindyr]

I guess the only thing lacking in this build is the reverse build, 5 powers, 4 Styles, 3 Attitudes gives you the ability to react on a 4 three times per page, whereas the above build gives you the ability to react on a 4 three time the first page you use it, but only once on each subsequent page. (because the non powered abilities will already be checked off.)

Is there a rule I've missed saying you can only use a powered ability once per page? (If not, I don't understand what you mean.)

Page 38:

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Abilities that give Debt may be used Page after Page, for more and more Debt, though each Ability can only be used once on any given Page.

Also, are there any rules about how many and which Styles must be powered when generating a character by hand?  Can I have 5 Styles with no powered Styles, or ALL powered styles, or anywhere in between?

Click-n-lock characters will never have more than three powered styles and two unpowered styles, but I don't remember there being anything in the rules for creating your own characters that prohibits all your styles being powered or all being unpowered. Tony's comment upthread kind of implies that you have to retain the balance, though. Unfortunately I don't have my book here at work to check.

I will recheck this, but it appears that with freeform characters the question of how many Styles are powered is open.

[Hans]

Page 38:

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Abilities that give Debt may be used Page after Page, for more and more Debt, though each Ability can only be used once on any given Page.

WOW!  I mean...WOW!!  How did I miss this before!  I found this so surprising (sorry Sindyr) I had to confirm it, and I'll be darned if it aint right there in black and white.  Am I the only one who missed this little bombshell of a sentence?

[Sindyr]

*I* missed it the first time, until someone pointed it out to *me*.

Tony, maybe you need to bold this in the next release?

Heh heh.

[Sindyr]

Summation of current question:

Why create a build thats not:
3 powers
5 styles (with #5 being powered and possibly #4 as well)
4 attitudes

what does any other build have to offer that this one doesn't?  It has:
4 or 5 debt generating powers
powered abilities at levels 1, 2, 3,5, and possibly 4
a maximum of non debt generating ways to act and react

Seems the only thing missing is the ability to react 2x on the same page with powered abilities - but for the first several pages you will have non powered abilities to use as well.

The above build seems clearly superior - is it?

[TonyLB]

The above build seems clearly superior - is it?

Again:  Superior for what purpose?

[Sindyr]

"Are there any purposes for which another build is more superior?" is I guess what I am asking.

If so, what purposes are significantly better served by some other build, and what build does so?

Thanks

[TonyLB]

Well, folks have already mentioned the good-loser build.

For another, if you want a low-debt build, to let you compete on goals while generating less debt than your opponents (and, thereby, hopefully receiving more story tokens from them than they receive from you) then you want to top-load your fives and fours with use-once abilities, and push for short, pointed scenes where you can apply that leverage.

That means, generally, that you'll be spending some of those extra story tokens on extra claims, to close off all conflicts and end the scene.  That, in turn, will often mean that you end up with a burgeoning stock of small (value 2 - 4) Inspirations by being the person who resolves second-string conflicts.