Wed night in the SJG Pyramid chat room

[Jake Norwood]

At 7:00pm Central time this wednesday I'll be the guest host for a live online chat. Check it out at the SJG website. COme on out and support me.

Jake

[Poenz]

Good luck tonight, Jake.  I hope the folks over at the Pyramid "get" the whole TRoS ideal.

Now, do you really want us to come support you in the chat, or would you rather we send you a check for the Pyramid's $21.65 subscription price?  

Not that I can afford either option; I'm saving all my moolah for OBaM (by paid pre-order if need be,) and for the Stephen Hand's upcoming book on I.33.  

Best,

~PO

[Jake Norwood]

There's a subscription price? Hah, learn something new every day. I hope I don't have to pay.

I'd love to have any one of you guys at that chat tonight, if it works out for you. If not...cool. Just thought I'd get the word out.

As for "the Hand..." I'm curious how good that will be; I'm a total sucker for buying anything that Paladin or Chiv Bookshelf put out on Med/Renn fighting, though I'm often disapointed, and Steve's research is dubious in places.

Agh...I'll buy it too. Dammit.

Jake

[Nick the Nevermet]

Hope it went well.
Sorry I wasn't there.

[Darren Hill]

I was there for a while, but it was too late to stay. The chat started at 1. AM my time!

[Jake Norwood]

It was really fun. And SJ himself got on and asked a few questions. We should have a chat room for forgies.

Jake

[Valamir]

Did you get a transcript?

[Jake Norwood]

I thought I did...

But when I openend the saved file nothing was there. Just my luck. Dammit.

Jake

[Mike Holmes]

We should have a chat room for forgies.

Psst. Jake. We do. Check the sig. You can chat there, or in the IRC room associated with it. Many of us do it all the time.

Mike

[Jake Norwood]

I'm a member, but I didn't know there was an IRC room with it. I don't read all the posts because their long. We should get together sometime soon.

Jake

[Darren Hill]

I thought I did...

But when I openend the saved file nothing was there. Just my luck.

I've sent you a copy.

[Jake Norwood]

The head of Drifwood Publishing discusses their ground breaking rpg The Riddle of Steel.
Ral says, "The log is now on."

Jake_Norwood says, "hello everyone. Thanks for having me out here to the Pyramid Chat room. I hope that I can entertain you all or answer your questions tonight."

Jake_Norwood says, "do I need to sit at a table or something? Help the new guy, eh?"

Ral [to Jake_Norwood]: Nope, you're good right where you are.

Jake_Norwood says, "ah. do that, please. I dont' have any prepared statements."

Ral says, "Sure thing."

Ral says, "We're going right to Q&A, so just page me to be added to the queue."

>From Table 1, PaulTevis says, "Perhaps you could talk a little bit about TRoS for the benefit of those who aren't very familiar with it. What's the view from 10,000 feet?"

Jake_Norwood says, "What I'd like to do is talk about the things that you all have on your minds concerning The Riddle of Steel or whatever other area of knowledge I might have that you want to use. "

Jake_Norwood says, "Okay, I can do that"

Ral . o O ( You all look like ants... )

Jake_Norwood says, "The easest way to learn about TROS is obviously through play our through our website. In essence, TROS provides the things that I most wanted as a player/GM"

Jake_Norwood says, "Those things include a "thinking man's" combat system--something like what GURPS has, actually, but with a different kind of depth and emphasis. TROS is, above all, about the choices that players make in-play, whether it's in-character descisions or OOC/metagame choices concerning things like motivation and combat"

Jake_Norwood says, "This is accomplished via the Spiritual Attributes--what I've heard is the most innovate aspect of the game, though originally I thought it was a crack-pot idea that no one would get. Guess I was wrong."

Jake_Norwood says, "The SA's are a way for players and the GM to communicate in a sort of stealth-mode about what they really want the game to be about and what they want their characters to do. In addition they promote "good roleplaying" (whatever that really is), and make the GM's work easier"

Jake_Norwood says, "The other "big thing" in TROS is our combat system, which I mentioned before. It was based on my knowledge of historical western martial arts at the time I wrote it, with some outside consultation. I've since learned soooo much more, but TROS still holds up remarkably well as a hand-to-hand combat simulator."

Jake_Norwood says, "Less exciting aspects of the game (but still solid, IMO) include the campaign world--purposefully left undetailed in many ways to give groups and GMs freedom to do what they want with it without worrying about messing up the metaplot, and the tremendously powerful insane magic system. "

Jake_Norwood says, "The basic goal was to do all of these things in a playable, resonably quick system. I think we pulled it off."

Jake_Norwood says, "Does that answer that question? As for the view from 10,000 feet... TROS took off in a big way this time last year. It really blew us away, as we originally only anticipated selling a few hundred copies at cons and the like as a true niche game. We're not White Wolf or SJG, but the niche turned out to be sooo much larger than anticipated. We're just trying to keep up, and that's hard."

Jake_Norwood says, "Comments? Next question?"

>From Table 1, Jesdyn says, "Can you elaborate on the "insane" magic system?"

Jake_Norwood says, "LOL... Yeah, I can do that. "

Jake_Norwood says, "The magic sytem in principle and form isn't all too different from Mage:TA or Ars Magica, though I'd not read either game when TROS was published. Rick McCann, an artist and buddy of mine from years back put together the Magic system and spent a lot of work on it. A few others and myself spent a bunch of time trying to clear up Rick's notes and great ideas and turn them into something others would get. I think we pulled it off. "

Jake_Norwood says, "The basic idea is uber-powerfull magic in the style of gods and true sorcerers...stuff that makes even the greatest warrior fear a meager wizard. In essence TROS magic can do just about anything, with absolutely no attention paid to traditional ideas of balance. If you're a GM that likes a lot of control, don't let a wizard into your PC group, as things could get out of hand. Overall it is pretty crazy stuff, and while the structure isn't the most original, I think the approach to sorcerers in-play is."

Jake_Norwood says, "If that does it, we can move on, I suppose. If not, let me know."

Ral says, "Let me just flash the URL for your site real quick: http://www.theriddleofsteel.net"

>From Table 1, PaulTevis says, "You mentioned that TROS has been turned out to be a far bigger deal than you anticipated. Can you talk a bit about your experiences with starting a company to publish the game?"

Jake_Norwood says, "Since some of you may be floating around out website right now, I do want to plug the fact that it hasn't had a real update in some time, though the Game Support page is frequently updated."

Jake_Norwood says, "Starting a game company..."

Jake_Norwood says, "It's pretty easy to do, really. Assuming you want to set up something that puts out print books through normal distribution, as opposed to the thriving PDF and POD market, then all you need is a website, a business liscence, a business bank account, and enough money to travel, print, and commission work."

Jake_Norwood says, "We started Driftwood Publishing out with $5,000 of money invested by folks that believed in us, and some of my own capital. I keep on saying "we," but in truth I should say "I." Driftwood is a one-man deal, though I've gotten some great help from artists/friends/co-conspirators Rick McCann, Ben Moore, and most recently Brian Leybourne, who got involved with us by simpling being a really devout fan."

Jake_Norwood says, "The initial 5K was enough to get the ball rolling, but small business loans--almost impossible to get--fleshed out the full print run when TROS "exploded." I think we've sold a few thousand copies now, though I'm not totally sure. That's because we, like most all small RPG companies, work with the larger industry through "fulfullment houses" like Wizard's Attick or Tundra Sales Org (which is the agent that we use). It's a pretty good deal, as for a small percentage an agent handles the warehouseing, distribution, and money-recieving for your company. It also increases exposure with the larger distributors like Alliance or ACD"

Ral says, "Ah, Woody."

Jake_Norwood says, "It's not without significant trials, however. The economy isn't good and the RPG industry is worse. A lot of folks (game companies) aren't getting paid; we're not getting paid as often as we'd like, though sales are good. It's the main reason behind all our publishing delays this summer. That can be difficult if you've (a) invested money or (b) invested love. Most small game companies are running on both. An idea small RPG company model is probably Ron Edwards and Adept Press. They're doing quite well and they started as an internet PDF publisher. It's the wave of the future, I think. "

Jake_Norwood says, "next...""

>From Table 2, ChrisPasseno says, "What is your release schedule looking like?"

Jake_Norwood says, "good question. I just spoke with another printer this morning, and we'll have print copies of OBAM at Gen Con and available off of our website as either PDF or a limited number of print copies by then. I'm strongly considering releasing TFOB in PDF supplementals, like a bi-monthly or some such thing, until it's done, and we'll run it as a print book after that. The online market is safer and guarantees payment for every book purchased, which is more than much of the industry can do right now. I also just commisioned some guys to start working on a Sci-Fi version of TROS for general release, though it'll likely take 6 months to a year before it's done. For now, the big day is Gen con. Who's going? Next question..."

SJ comes up the stairs from the lobby.

SJ sits down at Table 1.

Ral [to Jake_Norwood]: You mentioned experience with western martial arts, could you elaborate on that a bit?

Jake_Norwood says, "I'd like to say hi to SJ, who's games brought me a great deal of enjoyment for several years. "

marq comes up the stairs from the lobby.

marq sits down at Table 1.

Jake_Norwood says, "Sure. Thanks for keeping things going, Ral. I actually began looking for information on real sword and hand-weapon combat early on in my writing of TROS. I had spent a summer in high school fighting with the SCA heavy fighters, but that lacked whatever it was that I needed. I stumbled accross the HACA (now the ARMA, www.thearma.org), which is an organization devoted to the research and actual practice of historical european martial arts ("HEMA"). I found the local group the next day and started out very skeptically. Within a few months I managed to become a top student. At the current moment I'm training for an event called "Playing the Prize," which is something like a black-belt test for swordsmen. It'll be at the end of the month in upstate new york. I'll have to fight about 10 opponents for over an hour with padded, wooden, and steel weapons. I keep going while they rotate out and rest. It's likely to be painful!"

Ral says, "Sounds cool. I find swordsmanship fascinating."

Jake_Norwood says, "My personal training regimen includes about 30 min a day of calisthenics and running, and another 15-30 min of solo practice with the long sword and an a cut-and-thrust style sword. SOmetiems I cut, sometimes I shadow-fight, sometimes I work the "pell," a sort of punching dummy for swords. Then, twice a week for 2 hours each I train with other senior ARMA students and teach new students the long sword. I've formally trained in Longsword, Cut-and-thrust, Rondell Dagger, and English staff (8' long)."

Jake_Norwood says, "I find it fascinating too. Can everyone see your words, Ral, or just me?"

Ral says, "Everyone can. I'm the moderator. :-)"

Jake_Norwood says, "AH, okay. I just didn't want everyone thinking I was crazy and talking to myself."

Jake_Norwood says, "Are there any other questions or comments about that? It's clearly one of my favorite subjects, and I can go on for hours about it..."

Jake_Norwood says, "If not we can move on."

>From Table 2, ChrisPasseno says, "How long have you known John Clements from ARMA"

Jake_Norwood says, "I met John C. in April 2001, after having read his wonderful (but now largely outdated) books and after havig trained for some time under one of his best students, Rob Hyatt (who's now in Switzerland). In the summer of 2001 I took over the group here in Provo, UT, and I began talking with John C. frequently. He's been with me to Origins in 2002, he's stayed at my house a few times in 2002 and 2003, and I've traveled to his home in Houston for a week of private training. I'm one of his senior students right now--and perhaps one of his best (though I'm afraid of boasting...). I count John C. as one of my friends anymore. He's a good guy, if a bit too firey for his own good."

>From Table 2, ChrisPasseno says, "Both you guys were a sight to see at Origin's last year."

Jake_Norwood says, "John actually just wrote an article on RPG combat for TFOB and for our website. I'll be posting it in the near future, as soon as I can get our site re-done. He loves wargaming and RP'ing. Although he characterizes himself as a hack-and-slash player, he said that his best RP'ing experience ever was playing Sorcerer with Ron Edwards, Myself, Ralph Mazza (I think), Ben Moore, and Jared Sorenesen. John's a riot at the gaming table."

Jake_Norwood says, "I'm glad you guys liked it. It was fun, and my first time demonstrating in front of a crowd (I think it showed). I'm actually scheduled to run a similar demonstration on my own in Las Vegas this summer, probably in Early August, after I take my title at the Prize-Playing."

Jake_Norwood says, "Next question/comment...""

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "When poking around the TRoS website, I noticed that one of the features of the game's combat system is that it doesn't use hit points. In a general way, how does it handle injury instead of with HPs?"

Jake_Norwood says, "Ah hah! Back to TROS. Good. Conceptually damage is handled by simple descriptions of real-life wounds. Every one you get you write down. With the wound comes three numbers. The first, Shock, comes right out of a players combat pool immediately (what's a combat pool? its a bowl full of dice that you use to by and enact manevuers like cutting and parrying). After the intial blow and shock, "Pain" sets in, which is a permanent reduction of CP dice (until they're healed). Lastly, for those that want really crunchy bits, is Blood Loss, which also can result in eventual loss of CP dice. The idea is that instead of writing down and tracking hit points and the like, most all "math" is done by adding to or taking from the CP in-play. It reduces processing time significantly, despite a large amount of detail in play."

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "Interesting."

Jake_Norwood says, "The process is simplified further by the fact that as a general rule you never want to get hit; it's not a war of attrition. In TROS, you're pushing for complete victory over your opponent whenever possible. TROS wounds are like "real" wounds. They're a bitch. Once players understand that the TROS mentality is different in that way, it doesn't become a problem (though for many it starts out as "what? I got hit? I'm bleeding? Yikes! That sucks!)"

Jake_Norwood says, "Many groups play out these kinds of scenarios and approaches to damage and getting hit in all kinds of games. TROS just makes it part of the core mechanic."

Jake_Norwood says, "next Q"

>From Table 1, SJ says, "What about something like a broken limb? An actual incapacitation?"

Jake_Norwood says, "that does present a problem to the PC. "

Jake_Norwood says, "It is possible in TROS to lose a limb clean, or to have one broken. If broken, it can heal normally over a longer period of time (yes, I know that works fine in pendragon and is difficult in the middle of a session). That's where magic comes back in. As I said earlier, magic can do just about anything...that indcludes rebuilding, reattaching, or otherwise fixing broken limbs. The best answer to this problem, however, is "don't let your leg get broken." There are a few "failsafes" in TROS, such as luck points that can bail you out of a bad situation, or calling upon one's "Spiritual Attributes" for the dice needed to avoid such a bothersome wound. Lastly, in the worse-case scenario, if the PC is lost, then his spent "experience points," called "insight" can be used to build a new, better character. Thus character death doesn't result in the loss of "all the work" that a player has put into things."

Jake_Norwood says, "The idea, really, is that a broken leg or other problem can be a fun part of the challenge that players (and characters) face in-play. Because TROS's mechanics really push for the kind of stories we've started calling "Blood Opera," after the styles of Akira Kurosawa or Sam Peckinpah, injury to a character can mean interesting developments in the story...if the group is ready/willing to play it that way."

Jake_Norwood says, "so, who's going to Gen Con? Anybody gonna want to play a game of TROS with us at the big Indie games booth? We'll be there with Godlike and Adept Press in a big booth full of playing tables!"

Ral says, "I won't be there this year, unfortunately."

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "Heh. I was just about to ask if the medical system is as detailed as the combat."

Jake_Norwood says, "Actually it's not..."

Ral . o O ( "Let's see... says to roll on the Basic Leech Table..." )

Jake_Norwood says, "though it's an idea for a supplement ;-)"

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "Instead, I'll ask if you'll have a presence at Origins."

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "Didn't mean to ask two at once."

Jake_Norwood says, "Unfortunately I'll be getting wailed upon by men with swords that weekend, so no. We will have copies available for sale at the Tundra Sales Org. Booth. "

Jake_Norwood says, "no prob. Ask as many as you'd like"

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "Thanks."

Jake_Norwood says, "all healing is handled through one's Health attribute, the skills of your physician, and the level of "Pain" in each wound. It's pretty straightforward, though not as easy as "regenerate 1 CP per day.""

Jake_Norwood says, "As far as SJG is concerned, Gurps was the first game that said "combat can involve thought," and the "Martial Arts" supplement was an early inspriration for some of what I wanted to do in TROS. Though things changed much along the way, I think that GURPS has a lot to do with how TROS works, even though it's the least apparent of our influences."

>From Table 1, PaulTevis says, "Now that TROS has made a bit of a splash, what are your plans for Driftwood? Where do you see things going in the short- and medium-terms?"

Jake_Norwood says, "Doh! I wrote a huge reply and did'nt put a " in front, so I lost it...hold on..."

>From Table 1, PaulTevis says, "I do that all the time."

Jake_Norwood says, "dangit..."

Jake_Norwood says, "Our plans are to put out a few PDF supplements every year, and at least one print supplement a year, until we get corporate sponsorship! I would love to see TROS get larger and larger, but with my little company and limited time (I'm not doing this full time, as you can imagine), that simply isn't possible. TROS has a very active and loyal following, and I want to reward those people that have made this so worth my while. We will continue to provide some of the best free internet-based game support out there as well. In 5 years? I want to have more books out and perhaps a second edition of TROS which incorporates all the things i've learned about combat and about games in the last several years. There are lots of things about the original book that I'd like to see preserved, and a few that I wish hadn't been. Our real long-term plan is to stick around and stay large enough to spread, small enough to keep going strong. I think that the smaller companies that survive this economic period are those with strong direct sales and a willingness to hunker down for a while. That's us."

Jake_Norwood says, "awesome. that up arrow thing saved the day"

>From Table 1, PaulTevis says, "Anything beyond TROS on the radar?"

Jake_Norwood says, "Yes. We have about half a dozen smaller projects for the PDF and Con markets in the works. One of them, La Famiglia, is my personal favorite--a Mafia RPG where all conflict resolution is handled via characters' "Reputations" and through a hand of BlackJack. It's my most radical design yet and it needs work, but I'd love to bring some ashcans to GenCon. I've also been working (forever) on a supplement for Anvilwerk's Paladin game. A running thread in all Driftwood Games is the need for the players--not just characters--to make real choices that affect everying in-play, without going too far from a more traditional style RPG. That's my goal in design, and in publishing. "

Jake_Norwood says, "and I'd love to write a GURPS supplement on historical western swordsmanship and combat; the "Masters or Defense." Wink-wink, nudge-nudge..."

>From Table 1, SJ says, "Well, send a proposal to Kromm :-)"

Jake_Norwood says, "Hmmm...maybe I will..."

Ral says, "You could also get a subscription to Pyramid and join in on the discussions over at the GURPS 4e discussion board."

Jake_Norwood says, "YOu know, I think I might. I used to love reading old Pyramid issues...then I bought the compendiums and got married..."

Ral says, "I'm sure they'd love your input on the combat system."

Jake_Norwood says, "you never know..."

Ral says, "Wait... you're supposed to get a spouse after you by the compendia?"

Ral says, "SJ, I want my money back!"

Ral says, "Haven't gotten anything like that!"

Jake_Norwood says, "Well, that was the order it went in. Didn't your copy say so in back?"

SJ stands up from Table 1.

Ral says, "Must've been in the errata for my printings."

Jake_Norwood says, "Free bride when you get both ones...?"

SJ [to Ral]: Feh. I have thousands of copies in the warehouse. By your logic, I should be getting . . . ahh, never mind.

SJ sits down at Table 1.

Ral says, "Did I miss anyone who had a question?"

Ral says, "Doesn't look like it."

Jake_Norwood says, "I've got one. What does the Pyramid/GURPS community think of TROS? How many of you have read/played it? I know that at least thre SJG staffers have copies as well..."

>From Table 1, PaulTevis says, "I have it, though I haven't had it very long and I haven't had a chance to play it. I think what you were saying about Spiritual Attributes is right on; it's a great use of a metagame mechanic to reinforce the stories and themes you're interested in."

Jake_Norwood says, "Thanks. I hope you get around to playing it--it's fantastic in-play. I still play lots of games, but TROS is my all-time pick for fantasy or historical RPing. Anybody else?"

>From Table 1, ColBosch says, "I've flipped through TRoS a few times, and part of the reason I came here was to see if you could explain more about it and give me a reason to buy it. P-) I like the way you've described Riddle, and I will be buying it now."

>From Table 1, SJ says, "I admit I have not yet gotten to read it. I've heard it mentioned favorably, so it's on my "Aiiie, when I can" list. Good luck with it!"

Ral says, "I'm still messing with the quickstart. :-)"

Jake_Norwood says, "Excellent! I know that Wharehouse 21 stocks it, and I hope that you all get a chance to read and enjoy our humble (?) game! Thanks so much for your kindness and well-wishing. SJ- If you're not too busy, I'd like to take 5 min of your time at Gen Con. Maybe I can arrange a copy for you..."

Jake_Norwood says, "The quickstart is a good example of all the stuff our very loyal fans do for us. That was done free of charge as a favor, so we left it in it's (overly?) enthusiastic form. It's a good intro to the mechanics of the game."

Ral says, "Any more questions or comments?"

Ral says, "Looks like we're winding down."

SJ stands up from Table 1.

Jake_Norwood says, "So it does. Thanks everyone very much. I'm easy to reach and I willingly take emails at "norwood@theriddleofsteel.net," though the best place to reach us is through our forum at www.indie-rpgs.com. Thanks again so much for the opportunity and your interest."

Ral [to Jake_Norwood]: Thank you for coming to talk to us.