Is this usual?

[Michael Hopcroft]

I got my printing invoice today from my printer and it included a 100-copy overrun (10% of the run) for which I was held responsible.

It turned out to be the difference between meeting my debit card limit and having to write a check and send it by UPS Next-Day Air (the same UPS that damaged and destoryed by proofs).

Now is this a usual practice in the for-hire book printing business? Or was I the victim of an unusual cirumstance?

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Michael,

+/- 10% is completely normal. That said, check your contract.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Michael,

In my printing of Sorcerer and its supplements, the printer made it clear that they might slightly over-print or slightly under-print the book - in other words, the print count was always to be understood as an estimate.

However, at my printer, their policy is that the stated print cost is exactly what was initially contracted, regardless of whether the print count comes out a bit low or a bit high. This strikes me as the fairest policy, personally.

What I don't know is whether my printer's policy is the most general policy, or whether your printer's policy, which is apparently to bill for overrun, is most general.

Highly personal preference statement follows: it seems to me that demanding that you pay for the overrun is abusive. At the very least, they could offer to provide the extras to you for an extra charge, as an option. I'd think that if you are contracted pay them X dollars for B number of books, then you should be able to hold them to that contract, overrun or no overrun (it's not like they have to give you the extras).

Now! I am not a lawyer and know nothing about the legalities or the general state of affairs in that industry. The above paragraph is not legal advice. I am interested, however, if they had made clear to you what their policy regarding overruns was, when you began the printing process with them. The company I use was very up-front about it from the outset.

Best,
Ron

[Jason L Blair]

+/- 10% is standard and, yes, paying for an overrun (or being credited for an underrun) is standard. Every print quote I've received has listed that this as standard. Your quote should say that there is a chance of a(n up to) 10% over/underrun.

That being said...

I won't work with a printer unless they dump the 10% overrun. I get a list of print quotes and have the printers compete. I make it clear that if the printer dumps the 10% overrun, the chance I will go with them increases drastically. Printers tend to be very competitive, and if they won't dump the overrun (Which I've never understood. Yes, I've had it rationalized but it still has never made sense to me.) their price per unit had better be damn good.

[xiombarg]

In other words: It's standard, but it can be avoided.

There's a lesson here for future indie publishers, kids.

[Matt Gwinn]

Thanks for posting this Michael.
I was aware that printers often printed up to 10% more than you asked for, but I wasn't aware that they actually charged you for them.  Do they give you money back if they charge 10% less?

My thinking is that the reasoning behind the +/- 10% is due to available paper, ink etc.  I'm sure it's better for the printer to print a hundred extra copies than to have .05% of a roll of paper setting around and it's easier to print a hundred less if it means not having to reload a new supply of paper.

The thing is, this is all based on the convenience of the printer and they should never charge you for making their job easier.  In most cases printing that extra 10% is likely to save them money.

My company prints about 300,000 catalogs a year and in the five years I've worked here I've learned some interesting things about printing:

- Adding pages can reduce the total price if it brings the page count up to a number divisible by 8.   Printing a 64 page book is far cheeper than printing a 60 page book.

- You can often get a larger print run for the same price depending on how big the job is.  Big print runs don't use single sheets of paper, they use huge rolls of paper.  It's not in a printer's best interest to have extra paper laying around in miniscule quantities; that means they have to load the paper an additional time to use that up.

- Most importantly, the competition in the print industry is intense.  A printer is likely to work for peanuts if it means they get your business.  Shop around, don't accept the first offer and don't rule out a printer because its not local.  This competition also gives you a little more leway to be a hard ass (as I've learned recently with Kayfabe); make sure you get what you expected.

,Matt G.

[GreatWolf]

Just to join in on the chorus of replies.

Yes, the +/- 10% is normal.  However, when I was working with the printer when I published Junk, the customer rep guaranteed that we would not have to pay for an overprinting.  And, lo and behold, when they did overprint, he gave us the option to buy it but did not require it.

Of course, he wanted our business, and that made all the difference.  Next time you print, demand that you not be required to pay for an overprint.  If a printer wants your business enough, they'll do it.

[Chris Passeno]

I posted this earlier today, but for some reason it didn't take.  If this is a double post, I appologize.

(puts on Printers Cap)
Standard Printing Trade Custom is 10% over/under.

At each stage of the printing and binding process Printers expect to loose some units.  As a matter of fact, waste is guaranteed.  On average, a printer will print 10% or more over if there is a lot of work that goes into the job.  There are quite a few stages in the bindery process alone: folding, collating, slitting, sewing, case, etc.

By the time the book is completed, the 10% over is usually used up.  If not, they more than likely will charge you for the extra's.  Conversely, if they are short, don't expect to be charged.

Each print industry has it's own +/- custom.  I just recently learned that the plastic bag industry is 25% +/-.

(takes off Printers Cap)
It's a dog-eat-dog world in printing right now.  A printer ain't making any money if the presses aren't running.  Printers are more likely to bend or break some customs if it means getting the job.  Sadly, I am having to whore myself out more these last few months than normal.