i guess my opinion is last

[Aragorn]

I just want to simply try one. I have never seen one played, or seen one made. I just wanted to try it out, see how it is. Chances are i won't stay with evil characters, i have just simply never tried or seen one before. So, like i said, i wanted to know how exatically you make one. What the best race, class, feats, skills, and what abilities scores i should concentrate on.

                  Aragorn

[Valamir]

How do any of those questions apply to playing an evil character.  There are no "evil feats" or "evil abilities".  The best things to concentrate would depend on your character concept as it does for all characters.

The best way to play an evil character is to come up with a goal.  What does the character want.  While being "evil" for "evil's" sake may be fine for cartoons it shouldn't be the basis of an evil character campaign.  If it is its just an excuse to be more of selfish murderous looting pillager than most hack and slash characters are anyway.

I've played in two ongoing D&D campaigns as an evil character.

In one I was a high level Lawful Evil wizard (I had taken on the role of a prominent evil NPC and former villain of our party in mid campaign).  The new adventure centered on my primary rival a high level Chaotic Evil wizard.  Between us we had ensured that all magic-users in the region were either our apprentices or quickly snuffed out.  When the Chaotic Evil wizard (who was also completely insane) made his bid for power with armies of demi-humans and other nastiness pooring out of his wilderness stronghold, the party (led primarily by a Lawful Good Cleric / Paladin pair) needed a wizard to help them stop the threat.  I was the only one available and the pact was formed.  To sum up the long series of adventures the party got its ass kicked on the highest level of the Chaotic Evil wizard's tower.  I had achieved my goal and stopped my rivals neferous plans thereby preserving the balance of power between us.  Now that the final fight was going badly, I bailed.  In the middle of the climactic battle I fired of a massive damage fireball to cover my escape and teleported out of there.  2 of the good party members were killed outright by my blast and 2 others later died after suffering a nasty hit from me.  Was it evil...absolutely.  Was it totally in line with the character concepts and goals.  Absolutley.  Was it one of the most memorable moments of the campaign that rooted forever this guy as being a major villain...absolutely.

In the second campaign I played Tyrie Bloodbow.  A thoroughly nasty elf ranger assassin.  The campaign was one where a large powerful and quite oppressive (yet "good") Empire had finally succeeded in conquering and pacifying the region.  Our party was a cell of the rebel resistant movement (the native freedom fighters) we oppossed the oppression of the Empire which took away our individual liberties and forced everyone to behave "good" to each other or face imprisonment.  We were fighting for our ancient rights and traditions to live the way we wanted to live (murdering rapeing and killing each other as its been since the dawn of time).  We were basically a party of out in out terrorists and the message we sent to the Emperor was thoroughly evil (after kidnapping his daughter we turned her to stone in the midst of being raped by an ogre...freezing her look of horror and pain for eternity).  Evil yes...but entirely in keeping with our roll as terrorists with magic abilities at our disposal...We also waged war against the halflings whose fields kept the Empire fed.  A 100 mile stretch of high way was boardered by impaled halfling corpses.  We were evil.  It was one of the most incredible campaigns we'd ever played.  Thoroughly sick, but thoroughly illuminating.

In my opinion if you aren't really interested in delving into your personal darkside and using your evil character to see just how sick and twisted an individual you might be in different circumstances...than playing an evil character just to have the word "evil" listed on your character sheet is a complete and utter waste of time.

[Aragorn]

i know there is no "evil" feats or "evil" abilities. I am just wondering how to make a good evil character. here ill start it:

Elf
Fighter
Male

thats what i want the race and class to be, now im wondering what are good feats for an elvin fighter, and what abilities I should concentrate mostly on for an evil elvin fighter. I know strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, but will i need any in the others, and if so what should be the next one that most important, then the next important, and finally the least important. For instance if i rolled for my ability scores and got:

18
17
15
15
12
8

what should i put those into. I just mainly need help in making the character the best it can be so i can accually put up some resistance in things, but then again, i have only played two D&D campaigns and was a wizard in both, so of course i don't have the feeling of "high and mighty" as one might say.

THen i was wondering what feats i should get. i know for sure i want to be able to have 2 handed fighting, so i know i need abidextrious, and two handed weapon proficiancy, but what else?

       Aragorn

[Eric J.]

Waste of time BTW.  If you want to use two weapons you want to be a Ranger.  While this is all very interesting I think that we should define the parameters for this thread.

[greyorm]

I am just wondering how to make a good evil character.

You can't make a good evil character by assigning skills and feats and ability scores. Those have nothing to do with morality or personality.
You assign scores and skills, etc, the same way you'd assign them to a good character.

A good evil character is about motivation and personality. Remember, evil isn't about what you can do or what tools are at your disposal, it's about what you do and why you do it.

As well, evil isn't just "not nice" or "selfish" (those are more correctly "neutral")...evil is evil, something I think most players of games with alignments fail to actually realize.

Evil is sick, twisted, dark and inhuman. Evil is Nazi death camps, evil is mob lynchings, evil is the utter lack of care about or respect for anyone else's life, sanctity or welfare...it is, in fact, the very pursuit of making others miserable.

So, that's the basics of playing a good evil character.
Now, of course, I have to wonder why you want to play an evil character? What's your goal with playing such and/or why are you doing it?

[Valamir]

Aragorn you're not getting it.  And I don't know that many people are really interested in helping you stat out a character, there are probably better sites where people can tell you what combination of feats will let you kick the most ass.

NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with being evil or being good.  Forget stats, forget feats, forget all of that mechanical nonsense.  Alignment is about morality.

Go back and read my post and Ravens.  THAT is what you need to focus on if you want your evil character to be something more than a regular guy with the word "evil" at the top.  And you better be sure your GM and other players WANT to play in an evil campaign.  Being an "evil guy" in a regular campaign rarely works.

Heres a tip to get you started.  Think of the campaign world you'll be playing in.  Pretend you're going to be GMing it.  Create the villain that the party will eventually be facing.  Create the evilest, most twisted, most god awful bastard of a villain you can imagine...not just by making him a sick twisted deviant but by identifying what his motives are and why he's willing to do abosolutely anything to achieve them (which is basically what being evil is all about).

Then rewind this guy to the beginning of his history where he's just setting out on the path that will lead him to that state.  That's your character concept.  Point him out however you want.  As you play him, keep that ultimate vision of who this guy may one day become in your head and explore what kind of choices he made now that will get him there.

CONCEPT  not stats.

If you persist in trying to define evil by his stats you are completely wasting your time.

[Aragorn]

ah, ok. I see now. Like i had said in previous posts, i had never sen one made or played, so i wasn't sure if any of those things; stats, abilities, feats, had anything to do with it, i just wasn't sure.

I want to make an evil character for the very reason that i have never seen one played or made. I just want to test it out, chances are, i won't like it and i will go back to my lawful neutral good characters.


               Aragorn

[Seth L. Blumberg]

While the debate over Evil characters is potentially interesting, it is not Actual Play material.

Perhaps it would be for the best if this discussion were suspended, or taken to a different forum, until some Actual Play has taken place and can be commented on.

[greyorm]

Very true, Seth (and Eric), and thanks for reigning us in!

Avery, play for a while and then start a new thread to give us your impressions about what worked and what didn't in play. If your character "felt" evil, how it affected the group dynamics at the table (among players, not characters), and if the system you used let you really explore the actual concept you're going after (I don't know if you're looking for an anti-hero or a wolf-among-the-sheep, or much of what you envision for this character, so take your goals into account during your reply).

[Aragorn]

you got it,


      Aragorn

[Scratchware]

Greetings all. I am at Eric's house right now if you are wondering how I got on the internet.

Adding to Anthony's statement, my campaign has been sitting on my harddrive for 2.5 months. I would like the chance to run it, but anymore there are way too many people starting campaigns and they end up being wasted due to their lack of knowing what they are doing. 2.5 months is as far as I know, the longest time anyone in our group has prepared for a campaign.

Something I have gathered from some of the players lower on the roleplaying scale in our group is that evil characters are fun. I agree that evil characters such as the Sith in Starwars are very interesting but they make for player-killers which leads to, of course, player-killing and utter chaos. You never see a group of Sith walking around do you? Evil characters are just that, evil. Evil characters cannot work together, they do not have the kindness or patience to be around others. They are full of hate and arrogance. Having an evil character as well as good characters in a campaign does not work. In most campaigns, the players are in a party, not running around in a chaotic free-for-all trying to kill each other.

Avery, the question you are looking for is: How do I maximize/munchkinize an evil character?
That is the step after this. You need to first create a concept for your character first. Develope a personality and a background. Try to make it interesting, then fit your ability scores and feats around that to make a character that is consistant with itself.

I will post more of my ideas later. Bye.

[Andrew Martin]

How do I maximize/munchkinize an evil character?

To min/max any character, simply apply all the rules in the game system and ignore those parts of the group's social contract that forbid this. Ask yourself, "what gives me (the character) the most plusses?"

:)

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

People - please take the "evil character" discussion to a new thread in RPG Theory.

Best,
Ron