Evening all

[Malcolm Craig]

Ah, I see that some of this may be down my interpretation of Ron's initial questions about a/state and my status within the company:

As "senior developer," are you also the person who manages the finances and is responsible to the government in terms of taxes? Will you be handling the profit and payments? Do you have the final call about format, content, which printer to use, and all aspects of distribution and marketing? Does each and every decision regarding the game have to get vetted through you? Are you the principal and final call regarding each aspect of its design?

Many of these questions, as an individual, I would have to answer 'no' to. However, if we take 'creator' in this instance to mean the CGS team as a whole, then then answers to all of them would be a resounding 'yes'.

Greyorm wrote:

Finally, a comment on the art: I've seen digital art used in games before...I have to say this is the first and only time I've ever said it looks good and works for the game.

Thank you, that's very kind. I'll pass your comments on to Paul, I'm sure he'll be equally pleased to hear about such a positive reception to his art.

Thanks
Malcolm

[szilard]

I suppose the question would come down to whether the three creators are also the partners in the business venture.

Oh, and I'll second the kudos on the digital art. It is purty.

I haven't done more than briefly skim the .pdf, though.

Stuart

[Mike Holmes]

Even by the technical ideal, if truely the people managing the business end can't tell you how to change anything, then I'd say it's independent. Also, is this the only product? Or do you have more? If it's the only product, then it's even more indie in that there are no considerations of what might happen to the "other" products if this one doesn't do well.

As Ralph pointed out lately, are you "independent" of external oversite that tells you how to make the game?

OTOH, it's borderline on the subject of actual publication. I mean, you don't have final say on that part, do you (if you do, then it's totally independent, I'd say).

The real question is whether you feel that the production of the game is "independent" of external forces that in the end might cause you to change how it ends up being created, and how it ends up getting to the reader? Which is to say, will this site help you? If we give a suggestion, can you use it, or will external forces cause you to have to ignore it?

In any case, even if by some technical description your game isn't strictly independent, that hardly means that we have nothing to offer. Bruce Baugh, even though he's far from independent, and even though he's disinterested in large chunks of the main theories here, still seems to manage to get something out of the dialog.

The question of your game's independence has no bearing on whether we want you here. I do. It only speaks to whether we can discuss that one game in it's specifics.

Just my third-party take on it. I hope you stay. :-)

Mike

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Malcolm,

You guys sound a lot like the Apophis Consortium (prior to about a year ago) and XIG Publishing to me, which do qualify.

One last question - regarding money management, is it a tripartite thing, in regard to managing profits and "where to go next"? It sounds like that's the case; is that right? Please feel free to answer privately if it's too personal, but if I'm right, then we can ramp this thread straight into "a/space indie game design discussion" full bore ahead.

By the way, for everyone, these are the questions I ask anyone - Knowledge of the internal workings of a given company is key. Most of you have never seen this in action and hence might think I have some sort of "preference wand" I wave. I don't.

And one last clarifier: corporate vs. non-corporate status is irrelevant. Adept Press Inc is a corporation, for instance.

Best,
Ron

[Malcolm Craig]

One last question - regarding money management, is it a tripartite thing, in regard to managing profits and "where to go next"? It sounds like that's the case; is that right? Please feel free to answer privately if it's too personal, but if I'm right, then we can ramp this thread straight into "a/space indie game design discussion" full bore ahead.

Any decisions regarding money are made jointly by the partners (ie: myself, Paul and John). All profits (if, indeed, we make any) for the first year at least will be ploughed back into the company.

And in a similar vein, our decisions on where to go next with a/state are also made on a joint basis. It all gets very comradely and Soviet down here in the CGS bunker at times! Fraternal discussion and all that. In all seriousness, all decisions, from distribution, to printing, to content (eg: profanity: in or out?) have been made by the three of us together. Blimey, I'm making us sound like more of a political party than a games company!

Cheers
Malc

[Ron Edwards]

Indie!

Design discussion commence!

Go go go!!

Best,
Ron

[Malcolm Craig]

Thus my concerns about our presence on this forum are relieved!

I should point out that a/stateLite (our free preview) will not really reflect the current state of the game. We have gone through numerous edits and proofs, as a well as a bit of a system revision, since it was made available.

And there's also the fact that a/state is primarily about setting rather than system. I have to admit to being more of a setting rather than system design kind of guy, hence the reason we chose to utilise a simple percentile system.

Cheers
Malc

[Mike Holmes]

Well, consider that chargen is part of system. I'll bet that your chargen links up to the setting pretty well, no? How do you get the setting across via characters? Skills? Organizations?

Mike

[Malcolm Craig]

Well, consider that chargen is part of system. I'll bet that your chargen links up to the setting pretty well, no? How do you get the setting across via characters? Skills? Organizations?

Indeed. We've gone for simple but attempted to integrate it with the setting (or, to put it another way, to let it enhance the setting rather than detract. Although, that kind of stuff is probably old hat to you guys). Character generation, like in numerous other games, focuses initial on gaining an insight into the character, their background, upbringing, attitudes, ethics, etc. This leads in to the more number based elements (atts, skills, adds/disads, etc) which flow directly from the initial character concept (which is guided by a series of simple questions). While there are no fixed packages or professions, there are descriptions of various character types in The City, with recommended skills, specific organisations that may employ such an individual, etc.

Some professions are takes on established character types in other games, such as the Lostfinder, which is a community-based, altruistic, quasi-mystical private investigator, something of a reversal of the traditional hard-boiled gumshoe. Many of the character types are mentioned in the main body of the setting (ghostfighters, lostfinders, mikefighter pilots, stringers, flowghosts, etc).

Character generation will hopefully encourage the players to make some initial explorations into the world. This having been said, it is a setting which demands a reasonable depth of knowledge about the setting from the GM due to the depth of detail and some of the intricacies of society, politics and topography. I like to think that we've made the setting interesting enough to encourage players and GMs to explore it in depth.

Thanks
Malc

[Jeph]

I think I downloaded a/state Lite a while back, because it looked cool. I can't remember if I actually read it . . . if I have, my memory needs refreshing. Well, off to go ransack my files for the document . . .

[Stuart DJ Purdie]

I'm talking about the lite version here.  

The chargen system is interesting - overall 12% of your abilities are focused by origin and upbringing, the remaining being freely assinged.  That puts it somewhere between total free form and full lifepath.

The fully free form skill choice was somewhat unexpected.  I'm presuming that it's left up to the GM to rule, case by case, on skill availability then?  e.g. I'm not expecting a young ghostwalker to be a physics professor.

Was the theme of unnecessarily complexity intentionally written in to the setting, or did that come about as a consequence of the genre emulation?  It's a wonderful execution, as it's all restricted to the in game world, and doesn't impinge on the game mechanics.  In particular, I think your choice of currency is particuarly fitting - I'd throw in crowns and guineas, but that's a personal preference I think.

The one thing I wasn't clear on was the role that the Shifted were expected to play in the game.  My first take was that they were the folk lore and bogymen, but on re-reading it seems that they're a lot more, well, actual, than that.  I suspect that the full version would show their purpose, but from the lite version I couldn't place them.  I noted that the adventure hooks at the back or in the Tribune articles didn't seem to include them either.

Overall though, it seems quite a fresh take on the cyberpunk concept.  Very definitinly Simulationist in feel, with a focus on the setting.

Stuey!

[Malcolm Craig]

Stuart,

Sorry for taking so long to reply to your post. Work calls and all that!

The chargen system is interesting - overall 12% of your abilities are focused by origin and upbringing, the remaining being freely assinged. That puts it somewhere between total free form and full lifepath.

Exactly. My personal preference lies somewhere between a strictly controlled cargen system and a more freeform setup, pretty much as you described. This was borne out by our playtest groups, some of which had a lot of previous experience with lifepath driven systems (Cyberpunk, et al) and others which were more experienced in freeform systems (CORPS being the example that springs to mind).

The fully free form skill choice was somewhat unexpected. I'm presuming that it's left up to the GM to rule, case by case, on skill availability then? e.g. I'm not expecting a young ghostwalker to be a physics professor.

Again, wholeheartedly agree with you. The system does demand a certain amount of input from the GM and a certain amount of restraint and common sense on the part of the player. The player should always be able (in most cases) refer skill choice back to the character concept or have some reasonable justification for having a particular skill.

Was the theme of unnecessarily complexity intentionally written in to the setting, or did that come about as a consequence of the genre emulation? It's a wonderful execution, as it's all restricted to the in game world, and doesn't impinge on the game mechanics. In particular, I think your choice of currency is particuarly fitting - I'd throw in crowns and guineas, but that's a personal preference I think.

Complexity rises from the very nature of the setting. By that, I mean the nature of urban environments and the socities which evolve in them. a/state grew out of my own fascination with the urban, in real life, literature and cinema. Communication, transport, politics, sociology and so forth all contribute to the complexity of the setting.

Ah! The currency! Had a few queries about that, generally "Why?". During the very early stages, a 'fake' currency just didn't seem to give the right feel. I had to stop myself at pounds, shillings and pence. Guineas, crowns, farthings and suchlike were very tempting, but restraint had to be exercised!

The one thing I wasn't clear on was the role that the Shifted were expected to play in the game. My first take was that they were the folk lore and bogymen, but on re-reading it seems that they're a lot more, well, actual, than that. I suspect that the full version would show their purpose, but from the lite version I couldn't place them. I noted that the adventure hooks at the back or in the Tribune articles didn't seem to include them either.

Yes, the Shifted and their place in The City is somewhat unclear in the slimmed down preview. They are referenced a bit more fully in the full game, although a certain amount of mystery as to their ultimate purpose is left. They do occupy a large place in folklore, with many citizens never having encountered a Shifted being. This adds to the 'bogeyman' side, despite the fact they are a concrete reality within The City. One of the guidelines for running a/state included in the main book emphasises that The Shifted (and the macrocorps) should not be the focus of every adventure and not be behind every nasty going on. Although, some players and GMs will use them as a focus, which is all fine and well.

Overall though, it seems quite a fresh take on the cyberpunk concept. Very definitinly Simulationist in feel, with a focus on the setting.

Thank you, that's very kind. It's interesting to get different viewpoints n the genre tropes within a/state. Some have immediately picked up on the more 'steampunk' aspects, others on the cyberpunk tropes, whilst others have commented on the Dickensian feel and so on. All of these styles have influenced a/state in one way or another. Authors such as Dickens, Mervyn Peake, MR James, William Gibson, Cordwainer Smith, Joseph Conrad and so on are all favourites of mine and their legacy has seeped into a/state in one way or another.

Thanks for your comments. Very much appreciated.

Cheers
Malcolm