Evening all

[Malcolm Craig]

Hi, not sure if anyone ever reads these "hello, I'm such and such" kind of posts, but what the hell. Been meaning to join The Forge for a while now, but kind of got sidetracked.

I'm Malcolm Craig, by the way. The only thing of any note I've done game-design wise is the a/state RPG (soon to be released! Oh yeah?).

Heard a lot of good things about The Forge and having browsed through a few threads, it certainly seems like an excellent community.

Won't waste any more of your time.

Cheers
Malc

[Mike Holmes]

Hi Malcolm welcome to The Forge,

Well, nobody reads these posts as a rule because they're against the policy of the forum to post. That is, nobody posts them. I'm not a moderator (I just play one in RPGs), but that's the policy as I understand it.

That said, you did mention your system. If you start discussing something about it, then you'd be back on topic. So what can you tell us about it? Give us some question about it so that we've something to chew on. Like, do we think that EXPs make sense in a game about wandering pygmy tribes. That sort of thing. :-)

Mike

[Malcolm Craig]

Whoops. Apologies to all. Just a general tendency on my part. Sorry. I'll make an effort to read the forum guidelines more thoroughly now.

Cheers
Malc

[Bankuei]

How about you tell us something about your game, and make it "official"?

Chris :)

[Malcolm Craig]

Thanks for the get out clause! It always seems someone needs to clean up after me.

Well, the game is a/state and should be released soon. It's set in an all-encompassing city (known simply as 'The City') where the majority of people live in something of an industrial revolution level of technology. Whereas there are certain people and mercantile organisations who have access to significantly higher technology. I'm wary of the 'steampunk' tag though, even though I have been influenced by writers such as Dickens, Blaylock, Gibson, Conrad et al who are often featured in discussion of that sub-genre.

The art in the game is produced by my talented friend and partner-in-crime Paul Bourne. All the art is digital but of, I believe, a high enough standard that it will find acceptance amongst gamers more used to the traditional art forms.

After many trial and tribulations, we're finally getting near to our print date (hardback, 256pp if anyone is interested) and progress on supplements is well in hand. After so mcuh time spent on the game, it'll be great to see it out there and to finally see if it gains any acceptance in the marketplace.

Thanks about it really.

Cheers for the opportunity to give a little info. Any questions, just ask.

Malc

[DP]

Malcolm,

There does exist some sort of "preview" version, yes? Could you provide a link to it here?

I say all I needed to know to be favorably disposed was that a/state is produced by Scots. Tales of Gargentihr, SLA Industries...need I say more?

[Malcolm Craig]

Thank you. The indigenous Scottish RPG industry is alive and well!

Yes, a preview does occure. However, I mkust admit that it does need a bit of an update, given the number of proofs and edits the main text of a/state has undergone since it was made availble. As soon as main book is off to the printers, we'll be doing a revised a/stateLite.

The preview is available our website http://www.contestedground.co.uk/downloads.html

Cheers
Malcolm

[Matt Machell]

Hi Malcolm, good to see you here!

Are the rules hammered out in stone yet? If so it's probably too late to have any Forge style hard-core deconstruction. But is there anything still niggling you about them that we can help with, or add alternative perspectives to?

-Matt

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Welcome, Malcolm. Before this continues, I need to know something.

Is the game owned and published by its creator? Here's a bit of clarification about that ... As "senior developer," are you also the person who manages the finances and is responsible to the government in terms of taxes? Will you be handling the profit and payments? Do you have the final call about format, content, which printer to use, and all aspects of distribution and marketing? Does each and every decision regarding the game have to get vetted through you? Are you the principal and final call regarding each aspect of its design?

If the answer to any of these (or probably a bunch of similar I can come up with) is "No," then the only thing the Forge can do with a/state in this forum or the Publishing is say, "Awesome and good luck" - it can't be discussed in either one.

On the other hand, discussing its play in Actual Play, its features in RPG Theory, or (heavens) applying GNS stuff to its design in GNS Discussion, are all A-OK.

If the answer is "Yes," then carry on!

Best,
Ron

[Malcolm Craig]

As regards whether or not a/state meets The Forge criteria for an 'indie' game, I'd say the following:

Our company (Contested Ground Studios) was set up to independently produce quality, value for money, interesting games and supplements. The company is an equal partnership, we do not answer to any investors or outside interests who can in any way control the actions of the company (in a purely fiscal sense). Decisions regarding company actions and policy are taken on a collective basis. Regarding the specifics of a/state, final call on any written content is down to me, I have the absolute final say on that particular area. Graphic design and artistic matters are handled on a more collective basis, but again I can veto any particular item in this area that I feel is totally inappropriate to the feel of the game.

In relation to the creation of the game, it has very much been a tripartite effort between myself, Paul Bourne (artist) and John Wilson (writer, kibbitzer and business manager). While the initial concept and the lions share of the writing were mine, the game could not have come about were it not for the efforts of everyone involved. In our minds, we are very much an 'indie' games company. Much of our inspiration for our ethic and way of working comes from the punk music scene rather than the games industry. Again, this is an area where I've seen many similar discussion regarding whether or not a particular record label is 'punk' or not. Fat Wreck Chords is often attacked by many people for not being 'really punk' despite the fact they are owned by Fat Mike of NOFX (along with his business and creative partners) and have a long history of promoting and bringing forward new acts. To me, this is the same situation we are in. We firmly believe in our independence, as both a real business state and as an attitude.

That having been said, it is not for me to go against a policy which is applied strictly and is the main criteria for participation in these forums. I think the cireria are limited in scope and somewhat narrow, but this is obviously not affecting the vibrancy and success of The Forge.

In conclusion, it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria for an 'indie' game by the Forge definition. I'll therefore sign off from these forums and wish all members and owners all the best for the future and every success in their own gaming projects.

Cheers
Malcolm

[quozl]

In conclusion, it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria for an 'indie' game by the Forge definition. I'll therefore sign off from these forums and wish all members and owners all the best for the future and every success in their own gaming projects.

Cheers
Malcolm

I don't get this.  Because "it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria", you're going to leave?  Why not just wait and see if it actually meets the criteria or not?  

What's with all this rash behavior online?

[Malcolm Craig]

I don't get this. Because "it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria", you're going to leave? Why not just wait and see if it actually meets the criteria or not?

What's with all this rash behavior online?

I'd hardly say rash. I've reviewed the "policy" or "manifesto" (for want of better terms) of The Forge by reading the various guidelines and threads posted by the forum owners and administrators. After reading these at length, it appears that a/state does not fall within the group of games which can be considered 'independent' within the context of these forums. Because of this, I feel that joining this forum was a mistake (on my part) and the game projects I am involved in do not fall within the remit of this forum. This is not through fault of the Forge: There are guidelines which applied to every gaming product equally, as they are entitled to be. However, having made a point of reading further on the topic of indie games as it applies to the Forge, I have disagreements with the position of the Forge on a variety of matters regarding definition, context, etc. This does not mean to say that I intend disrespect in any way, shape or form. I simply feel that as the games which myself and my colleagues work on are not 'in context' in terms of the discussions which take place here.

Please do not take this as some sort of attack on these forums. I have an immense amount of respect for many of the contributors to the Forge and it is certainly an active, vibrant and valuable part of the gaming community and one which furthermore strives to increase quality and choice for gamers.

Edit:

I also found Rons questions both interesting and informative as to how a given definition of indie was arrived at and I wholly agree with the concept of having forums which are devoted to 'indie' games, regardless of how they are defined. I find debate on this topic highly interesting and educational.

Cheers
Malcolm

[ethan_greer]

What the hell?  Seems to me, if the creator of the game is in an equal partnership with two other creators of the game, it's an indie game by the Forge's definition.  Is Arrowflight an indie game?  If so, why wouldn't a/state be one as well?

[Marco]

What the hell?  

Theory? Meet Practical Application.

Moderators? Is this guy indie or not? I sure can't tell.

-Marco

[greyorm]

I'm going to say the same as Ethan: three guys collectively developing and publishing a game without any outside interference/control/development from anyone else/another company qualifies as an indie game in my book.

What's with the belief that "indie publishers are all one-person shops"? WTF? I don't believe that's part of the Forge manifesto at all.

I think the "Indie" as a definition, and Getting Over It thread is useful here, as it points out, indie is really about creator control...whether that's one creator or three co-creators.

Finally, a comment on the art: I've seen digital art used in games before...I have to say this is the first and only time I've ever said it looks good and works for the game.