Finding Characters

[Paganini]

This reference thread:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=4738

Is pretty much a theoretical description of a practical approach to creating thematic play. In a nutshell, the goal was to create characters that would produce thematic play by behaving naturally. In a lot of ways, the end result is just a slightly different way of applying existing techniques like R-maps and Kickers.

While I really like the method in theory, I often have trouble applying it in specific instances. The results I come up with tend to seem stale, cliched, all the same.

I'm basically looking for two things:

1 - General idea mine advice; anyone got any suggestions on coming up with good Kickers, R-maps and such? How do you keep your setups from getting stale?

2 - Sources for specific examples of the 4 elements. I'm thinking of something like a reference document. It's said that all stories are variations on a finite number of basic constructs. Does anyone know of any reference documents that contain - for example - lists of motivations, situations, relationships, and so on?

[John Kim]

In a nutshell, the goal was to create characters that would produce thematic play by behaving naturally. In a lot of ways, the end result is just a slightly different way of applying existing techniques like R-maps and Kickers.

While I really like the method in theory, I often have trouble applying it in specific instances. The results I come up with tend to seem stale, cliched, all the same.  

As I was commenting to Mike Holmes in http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7297">this thread, I am very concerned with my own PCs behaving naturally.  I also think that this can be great for generating meaningful play.  

You asked for comments on Kickers, but I think your Norm/Passion/Opposition/Movement concept is broader than that.  A Kicker, as I understand it, is an event that happens just before play begins.  It is a useful tool, but it is only part of the picture.  From examples that I have seen, Kickers seem to tend toward melodrama.  

A character can be pro-active without a Kicker.  I think the key is that the character needs to be passionately opposed to some status quo.  Re-active characters support the status quo.  They live fairly low-conflict lives until an unusual event shakes things up.  For example, traditional superheroes wait for supervillians to threaten civilization, then move to stop them.  However, pro-active characters don't need an unusual event to push them into action.  

This can be as direct as burning ambition to rise to some position of power.  Pro-active characters are often viewed as evil precisely because they threaten the status quo.  However, there can be positive cases of this as well.  For example, in my Vinland game, Silksif's cause was that she wanted to free her side of the family from her great-uncle Ivar and his descendents.

[Windthin]

From the sound of things, the Kicker is the RP equivalent of the prologue.  Most stories do not exist in a vaccuum.  There are events that occur before you come in, and you can often extrapolate events that occur after.  Some stories actually have quite extensive prologues, just as an experienced or well-traveled character might.

I think one good method is to really think your character through upon creation, their goals, quirks, history, past... and then to keep thinking things through as you go, rather than stopping once the game begins.  My characters tend to grow, their pasts to develop spotaneously as time goes on, more and more added in.  Some of this is personally driven, and some comes from the GM (when I am the GM, I know I love to dredge up a character's past, and maybe add a few details myself; getting together with players to discuss their past and maybe a few surprise details can be most rewarding).  Always reacting to your environment without any ties to the past can grow monotonous, admittedly... sometimes you want to react a certain way because you decide this hearkens back to a specific incident, and naturally as time goes on we also create more "Kickers" through play itself.  In every group you get a certain mix... some are followers, some are leaders, some are loners, some work well with the group.  I personally wind up the reluctant leader often, though I am more a team player and fill the niches needed... what I call a pillar role... I uphold the group.  Some will be pro-active and go out and grab the game by the throat, pull themselves and others along.  Others... you may have to coax a little more.  As I've said before here... know your players and their characters, and this will be your beacon.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

John wrote,

I think the key is that the character needs to be passionately opposed to some status quo.

I agree completely. This is central to Egri's thinking regarding effective story creation, and central to certain modes of role-playing.

Windthin, you might be interested in an older thread called The class issue; I think it might help with some of the points you're making and permit us to avoid getting bogged down in some phrases. For instance, the "reluctant leader" role is hard to understand unless I know whether you're talking about yourself relative to the other players or about your character relative to the other characters.

As for Kickers, here's a start: What are Kickers and Bangs? It doesn't say much, but it has the right links in it.

Best,
Ron