Issue with skills resolution

[Jaif]

Hey all,

Sorry if this has been discussed already.  I don't get to these forums much and I miss lots.

Anyways, I have real problems with the skills system.  Basically, there's rarely any point to having people make skill rolls unless I'm in a situation where I'm counting successes.  The problem is that people usually roll for things that they're good at, which means they have decent stats, which means they're going to make the roll.

One example: player has a stat of 6 and a skill of 10.  This means the character has a 90% chance of failure on one die, or .9^6 = .81*.81*.81 or roughly 51-52% chance of failure.  That's with a skill of 10.  The chance of failure really plummets once you have a decent skill, so a skill of 6 results in something like 1/64 chance of failure.

Anyway, this really seems to cheapen skill rolls in the game; if you have a decent skill, and you're going with your strengths, you're going to succeed, and it's almost a waste of time to do otherwise.

Anybody have an alternate skills system that they use to smooth this out a bit?

-Jeff

edit: skill of 6 for 1/64, not skill 5 like i originally wrote.

[Ingenious]

Why not as the seneschal declare 'roll <skill name> vs their skill rating'?
Especially for skills that they are bad at, and that they think they won't ever use. (I myself as a player have thought that on many occasions)

But the counter-thought as a player, is that I am not put into a situation where I can use a wide variety of my skills. If my character had survival for instance, it does him no good if he's got money and is in a town.. and can afford to buy food and water and so forth. Sometimes it is good for the player, the character, and definutely the plot to sometimes coerce a player into a situation where he HAS to use a skill he is bad at.

You see my point?
-Ingenious

[Dain]

Hey Guys,

I don't have the books with me, but aren't skill rolls modified under various conditions, thus raising the TN's? I.E. if you have a pick lock of 10, isn't that a TN of 10 versus a normal lock on a normal house under normal conditions....something like getting into Norad would have a +30 to the TN for difficulty, + a little more for bad lighting, + a little more for makeshift tools, + a little more for sprinklers going off all around you and the water interfering with your vision, etc,....? Does that make a difference to your question? Forgive if I'm off base here...I'm new to the system and like I said I don't have the books with me. Whether that's off base or not, I think the book says 4 is human norm and anything past that kindof leans towards legendary ability (again, might be off here), and although a 6 is pathetically easy to start with as a player character, it doesn't represent the normal populace...so a stat of 6 may not really be a fair test case. Just my 2 cents, and I'm probably off base due to being new to the system...if so, please disregard.

[Ingenious]

Modifiers for skills can be in two ways methinks, either raising the TN or taking away dice on the skill check.

I do like the use of Norad as an example, though I think they have particularly good lighting...

-Ingenious

[Lance D. Allen]

Ya'll got it a bit wrong.

When modifying a skill roll due to exceptional difficulty, you don't mess with the TN. You do one of three things:

1. Reduce the dice being rolled.
2. raise the number of successes required to succeed
3. If the roll is opposed, lower the TN of the opposed roll, or raise the number of dice being rolled.

[Dain]

My bad....minus 30 dice for Norad, less a few more for each of the other things. I stand corrected on the lighting at Norad, unless perhaps the characters involved somehow managed to blow out all the multiple power line runs and then somehow knocked out all the local internal emergency generators and power sources (probably due to one of those pesky kids that are always dialing up to the wopr to play the nifty thermonuclear war game. <snicker>...boy I'm glad the internet isn't conducive to dice throwing, backhanding, and general pommeling...otherwise I'd be in pretty bad shape about now I think).

[Jaif]

I guess this is what happens when you skim rules rather than read them.  I knew about the number of successes aspect, and used that when someone did something complex (e.g. two successes to open the door quietly while staying out of sight of the pacing guard), but I didn't realize that the subtracting dice as an option.  That gets rid of the mathematical side of the issue.

Btw, as for modifying TNs the problem there is the curve.  When you're rolling 6 dice or so, needing a TN of 3, 4, 5, 6, so on isn't that big of a difference.  Then suddenly when you get over 11 the curve changes dramatically.

Subtracting dice sounds about right.

-Jeff

[Richard_Strey]

On the other hand, when was the last time you failed to write a letter, ride your bike or climb a ladder? Simple things are simple. I belive Jake stated that earlier. You simply don't crash your car every other time you drive shopping, having a car-chase is something different altogether. That's why skill rolls are really only neccessary if you do something opposed or have to do it *really well*. If you can take your time and correct any mistakes you may make right then and there, you should be doing well.

[Jaif]

Believe me, I'm plenty familiar with that concept.  I often ignore skill systems when there's no good reason to make a roll.  However, when I feel the need to use a system, I want it to fell right to me.  Subtracting dice will help.

-Jeff

[Ingenious]

I'd say the last time I failed to ride my bike was in 3rd grade, which resulted in the bike falling out from under me, my left leg getting caught in the chain.. it twisted my leg until it cracked.. and threw me for about 10 feet in the opposite direction. Spent awhile in the hospital and in a full body cast.

The point to that story is that, yes simple things are simple.. but when 'failed' can lead to tragic yet amusing results.

That event was also the first time I ever lost consciousness, the first time I got a concussion..but not the last time I would break that leg.
That happened when I failed to keep my ass in a swing... yet that's a whole other story.

You see my point with wanting characters to fail for sheer plot considerations and/or amusement and possible laughs.

-Ingenious