Comparitive data thread: Reward and Reward Mechanics.

[Trevis Martin]

Hi everyone,

I found myself interested in the comparing of dwarf stats in the Dwarfs, Dwarves and Small People thread and I think it would be a good thing to do general surveys of different kinds of mechanics.  Esp for those designers here on the forum.

Reward and IIEE are the top ones on my mind.  

My question for the reward thread:

What are the methods of reward (aside from purely social) as noted in the game text.  This would include roleplaying reward in general as well as character advancment or player power rewards.  What is given (points, dice, resources.) What is it given for (player behavior, character achievment, etc.) and what is it used for (boosting rolls, attribute or ability increase, power for particular stance or metagame application, etc.)

Whatever games you care to list will be great.

regards,

Trevis

[Mike Holmes]

Are you looking for categories, or just a game by game list? I mean, we can kill off a ton of games by listing the character development reward. These come in different forms, but essentially the player gets points, usually for winning, which then convert to improvements in character effectiveness.

Is this the level you want to get into, or should I explain how it pertains to TFT in this case? Could you do a sample to start?

Mike

[Trevis Martin]

Hi Mike,

What I originally had in mind was a game by game comparison.  I am interested specifically on how the text lays out the reward mechanic, as well as what other reward mechanics may exist, as specified by the text.

If we can group some games together that's probably fine, but sometimes they do implement differently as far as suggestions for how precisly the points are aquired and for what behavior specifically.

for example

Sorcerer

Interesting Roleplaying (appropriate/evocative/cool description or dialogue) is rewarded by the GM on a per event basis by the giving of additional dice for rolls.

Humanity point scale increases or decreases as characters make in game decisions for or against a group established definition of humanity.  Complete loss of humanity results in temporary or permanant loss of character depending on social contract.

Character attributes increase by random roll for one attribute at the end of each story.

--Trevis

[Mike Holmes]

OK, I'll do one.

Hero Quest

GM is allowed to increase character effectiveness for in-game accomplishments at any time. Tends to reward interaction with people and aquiring stuff.

Hero Points are awarded on a per session basis, amount depending on the quantity of dramatic play in the game. Rewards concentration. They are generally used, again, to increase character effectiveness scores (Ablities).

Mike

[M. J. Young]

Star Frontiers

Scenarios are divided into segments, much like chapters or scenes. At the conclusion of each segment the referee decides how well the player characters achieved the objectives in that segment, and awards from zero to three points to each character (usually the same number to each). These points may be spent to acquire or improve skills or to increase attribute values.

Multiverser

The only reward is play itself. No metagame rewards are given for anything. Character improvement is based on in-game character actions, such as practice, exercise, study, and use of abilities, referenced against game world time. Players play because they enjoy the game, and can define and pursue their own objectives within it.

*****

This brings up something that was rattling in my brain yesterday when I read this thread, which I did not (obviously) post as I hoped it would be clarified without my input.

You seem to be conflating reward with character improvement, to some degree. These are often connected in one way or another, but not always so.

--M. J. Young

[Trevis Martin]

M.J.  

You are right that I might seem to be doing that in my example post.  The last line on character improvment maybe shouldn't be there because it isn't really used as a reward in Sorcerer except in the limited sense of completing a discrete 'scenario' unit of play.  I understand that reward may consist of

1.) social approval (but this isn't mandated by the text, which is what I'm interested in)

2.) Some form of improved character effectiveness.

3.) Some form of increased player-leval privilage.

4.) maybe some kind  of social (non character, non player privelage) reward?  

Does anyone play RPG's for money?  (Envisions SOAP with quarters.)  Also we need to consider punishment in the mechanics as its the inseperable dual of reward.  On that point I should have mentioned for Sorcerer that the GM can take away dice for ineffective or bland play.

I am aware that character improvment (i.e. impovement of characters scores) isn't always offered as reward.  I perhaps just made it a little unclear with my example, but thanks for mentioning it!

Question on your entry for Multiverser.  Character improvment is not really a reward in play but is negotiated through social contract.  (i.e. requires a GM/player agreement about effort/time expende in game.)

correct?

[M. J. Young]

M.J.....

Question on your entry for Multiverser.  Character improvment is not really a reward in play but is negotiated through social contract.  (i.e. requires a GM/player agreement about effort/time expende in game.)

correct?

It's a touch more simulationist than that.

What the rules say, really, is that anything that ought realistically to improve a character's ability at something will in the game do so. There are then guidelines given for what should improve a character, and how fast.

For example, it says that a character with ordinary strength who starts an exercise program that involves him in three hours per five days will see a game-measurable increase in strength in two hundred days (and offers suggestions on ways that time can be shortened); that a character with extraordinary strength must work four times as hard to see similar improvement. The rules for skill improvement are similar, but on a faster scale. The idea then is for the referee to compare what the player says his character is doing to these guidelines and tell him whether he feels like this is working--a workout that is working should leave you a bit tired afterward, so if you're not tired, you're not working hard enough.

So it's less amorphous than "player and referee agree" but still has flexibility in it so that creative player ideas can be considered.

It also provides for other means, most notably in regard to skills the "new use" rule that says that if you have used a skill before but you use it in a manner that is substantially different, you automatically get better at it (if you succeed) because you've improved your understanding of how to use it. For a really goofy example, if you've learned computer use on a Windows operating system and you are confronted with an Apple/Mac system, and you figure out how to make it do what you want, you have just improved your understanding of how to "operate computer" by using the same skill in a new context.

Clearer?

--M. J. Young

[Trevis Martin]

M.J.--

Yes that is clearer, thanks.  The text provides specific fomulae then for the increase of character effectiveness in the game, but this is not used as a reward system.  So reward in mutiverser is purely social and personal.

Here's another one for me.

Inspectres (2.5)

Players are rewarded for succeeding in skill rolls by being given control of the narrative for the result of the conflict.

Players are rewarded for pursuing die rolls in service to the mission by aquiring franchise dice for successful rolls.  These can be used on later missions for various resources.

Players are also rewarded for succeeding well on stress rolls (and thus for putting themselves in situations that cause stress)  allowing them to earn 'cool' dice which can be used to augment skill rolls as well as to ignore stress penalties.

--Trevis

[Lxndr]

Burning Wheel

Players are rewarded with "Artha" for playing according to their beliefs and traits, or accomplishing in-character goals.  Artha, in turn, is spent to augment rolls in various methods and manners.  Never for character improvement.

(There is also a skill-improvement method, wherein skill tests lead directly to skill increases, but that isn't a reward system, to me - Artha is the reward, the skill-improvement is just an artifact of the system.)

The Riddle Of Steel

Spiritual Attributes are spent for character advancement, and are only gained by acting in accordance with them.  Before being spent, Spiritual Attributes also act as direct-bonuses for acting in accordance with them, in certain situations.  Rewards are thus tied into this little engine.

(TROS also has a skill-improvement method where skill tests lead to skill increases, but it is much more haphazard and sloppier than BW's system, above.  Once again, I don't consider it a reward.)

Fastlane

Player reward and effectiveness is measured entirely by chips, which determine both how much effect a character can put forth in a given contest, and also are a resource for character improvement.  Rewards in the form of chips come from two methods - a small amount comes by paying back favors owed to PCs or NPCs (or by others defaulting on favors they owe you, although that is rare), or by being lucky enough to win when it's your turn to bet.  

Rewards, then, are entirely a result of mechanical events, rather than coming from any sort of sentient source (other players, GM, etc.)

[Trevis Martin]

Vampire; the Masquerade - 1st Ed.  And for that matter all of White Wolf Games original Five (Werewolf, Mage, Wraith, Changeling) in 1st and 2nd editions and also Vampire in 3rd edition.

Player is rewarded specifically in experience point by the GM (Storyteller)

Gudelines are as follows:

Recommended that the GM award from 1-3 points per session, and 1-3 additional at the end of the story. (1-5 possible in Mage 2nd Ed.)

1 point is automatic for each session.
1 point possible for Educational Experience - Gm is supposed to ask the player what the character learned during session.
1 point possible for Roleplaying - 'The player played well, not only entertainingly but appropriately. Award for exceptional roleplaying only, your standards should get increasingly higher.  In most cases only award this to the person who did the best roleplaying in the troupe.
1 point for Heroism - Character puts him/herself at risk for others (added in Mage 2nd Ed.)
1 point for Internal Consistancy - Player acted out characters nature and Demeanor very well and had Magical Goals which complemented his/her Essence. (added in Mage 2nd Ed.)
[/list:u]

End of Story awards are noted as:



1 point possible for Success - 'The characters succeeded in their mission or goal.  Perhaps it was not a complete success but at least a marginal victory was achieved.
1 point possible for Danger defined as characters experiencing great danger during the story and surviving
1 point possible for Wisdom - the player exhibited great wits or resources that enabled the story to result as a success.
[/list:u]

the GM is encouraged to invent new catagories for particular stories.

points are used to increase character attributes and abilities.

Player is also is rewarded with willpower points when he/she fulfills some criteria of his or her chosen Archetype through roleplaying.  Willpower points are used to reatain self-control and avoid frenzy and indirectly, humanity loss, and also to gain automatic successes in tasks.

Sillouhette system (Heavy Gear 2nd Ed., Jovian Chronicles.)
Dream Pod 9 Games (I don't know about Tribe 8, I never purchased it.

I want to quote directly from the rules on this one.

Experience points are awarded by the Gamemaster at the end of each playing session. His decision is final. Some players also like to judge each others performances and give "audience merit points," but this requires fair and honest players to avoid self-congratulatory excesses.  in general no more than 5xp's should be awarded for each session  per charcter (10 for Cinematic Campaigns.)  Some Gamemasters use the distribution of Experience Points as the stick and carrot to control their players, but this is generally a bad idea. It is likely to cause dissent among the group.

If a player showed little interest in the game or did not participate in the session, the Gamemaster should award no XP's.  A player who gave good effort, but did nothing more exceptional than show up for the game is awarded 1 XP.  If the character got really involved, the player should be awarded 2 XP.  A player who always stayed in character and showed genuine enthusiasm is awarded 3 XP.  Particularly dramatic or daring acts of self-sacrifice (where there is REAL risk that the character could die) should also be rewarded with additional XP's, as do deep sub plot involvement.

experience points are stockpiled and used for increasing character abilities and stats or can be converted at any time to emergency dice to boost cruical die rolls.

[Trevis Martin]

a few more

Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. Cybergeneration
R. Talsorian

Player is rewarded specifically for character skill use with Improvement Points based on a table correlating frequency and success of useing the skill with the amouint rewarded.  The tex also notes that

"Referees should use an even hand when awarding improvement points, not only rewarding players for doing things well, but also for demonstrating both role-playing ability and teamwork. (p. 44)"

No measure of either one is mentioned in the actual IP chart

Player is also awarded reputation points based  by the GM based on actions he has his character perform in play.  The reputation represents a value used for determining if people know of the character and for facedown contests between characters.

Castle Falkenstein
R. Talsorian

Castle Falkenstein has no overt reward mechanic at all.  Improvment of character is done through negotiation between the GM and player.  No extra bonuses are awarded by the Gm in play.  No changes in player power or stance is noted.  No bonus/karma/fate points exist.

Everway (1995)
prev. Wizards of the Coast, now Gaslight Press

The only explicit mention of reward in the Everway text is in the Gamemastering Guide where it discusses Boons.

Boons are things the characters earn on a quest (adventure)

Boons can be treasures found during the quest, rewards from those the heroes have helped or direct/indirect effects from the quest (such as the temporary gaining of a power due to a release of magical energy

It is noted that  a typical boon has a special effect that works only once.

I'm not sure if I would put this in the area of a reward mechanic other than it implies that the rewards are entirely in-game material and the text discusses it specifically as a quest element.

[Michael S. Miller]

more Everway

I don't have my rule books handy, but IIRC, whenever a character faces his Fate, the character stats are supposed to change somehow.  I'm not sure if that's in the book or was posted to the Everlist, but I'm pretty sure that facing your Fate is supposed to be linked with character improvement. Trevis, can you double check that?

[Lxndr]

That was posted to the Everlist - it's not in any official rulebook.  That said, it's a great house rule which specifically goes "whenever you meet your fate, you may move one statistic point between any two stats."  So your 5 becomes a 4 and your 2 becomes a 3, or something.  The total stays the same, but you can change the details.

The Pool

Whenever you give up a monologue of victory, and let the GM narrate, you get a die.  Dice are used for both character improvement and for in-game effectiveness.