Cruxness in revision

[Jason Lee]

Is that enough?

Should be.  I'll be a little slow in gettin' to the figurin', but I'll let you know when I've got an idea (provided Mike or someone doesn't beat me to it).

No multiple die types right?  No charts either?

[taalyn]

There are a couple of other issues I mentioned that no one has commented on yet, so I want to highlight them again.

- Objects can have Passions or Aspects. Passion objects are hard, if not impossible, to lose (like Luke's lightsaber), while Aspect objects are simply cool gizmos you happen to have on hand. The problem - in chargen, how do you turn what has been setup as an Aspect object into a Passion object?

- How to distinguish between feits and Raptures in a draw? There are actually a couple layers here, from easiest to hardest:
has an Art, throwing a feit
no Art, throwing a feit
has an Art, weaving a rapture
no Art, weaving a rapture (if it's even possible)

I've done various combinations of default/no default, Art or Feit score or nothing, and nothing so far seems very intuitive. Any ideas?

Your help is appreciated!

Aidan

[taalyn]

Should be.  I'll be a little slow in gettin' to the figurin', but I'll let you know when I've got an idea (provided Mike or someone doesn't beat me to it).

No multiple die types right?  No charts either?

Yes please. No multiple types, and no charts. We thought of assigning colors to numbers, but that just gets way too complicated. Simple rolls, pools or standard number of dice with target to beat, is what I've been thinking. If you come up with something better, I'm all ears.

Aidan

[taalyn]

Edit: double post.

[Jason Lee]

After reviewing the caern building rules I'm not sure this'll work.  Well, I'll spit it out anyway.

Going with your dice pool idea, here's what I've got:

Roll 3d6 (white) + 1d6 (red) per Aspect or Passion

Each die that comes up less than or equal to your rating in the color of the task is 2 power, each die that comes up less than or equal to the highest rating of the two adjacent colors is 1 power.

Boon:  Roll all 1's on the white (default) dice.
Bane:  Roll all 6's on the white dice.
Wyrd:  Roll all 6's on the red dice.

Here's the problem - I was thinking old Crux rules again (1 - 6 stat for each color).  So this doesn't quite make sense.  Crap.

I'll have to think about it a bit more, but this idea might work with the current caern building rules by leaving a space on the color wheel to fill in a number for a dice system.  It's a chart, but it's a chart you already have.

How to make that work...

You could make the normal success target number 3 or lower (default caern).  

During character generation roll 1d6 for each color (genetics).  If you get a 1 lower the target number of that color by one, if you get a 6 increase the target number by one.  

Give the player two + 1's they may assign to any color(s) (player assigned motes).

I haven't done any calculations on this - I had the idea in the shower.  Actually, I haven't done any calculations at all (my head has been in it lately).  However, I'm leaving the caern/draw rules on my coffee table, so they can force me to think about them.  I'll let you know if I have any other ideas.

[taalyn]

Hmmm...I think you're on to something here, Jason.

There is no limit to your "stat" (aka Threshhold) in a color, but 10 is a comfortable max. So, you're right - that's not quite right.

Also, say I have 5 in red, 7 in amber, and 2 in magenta. If I roll my dice, and get a 4, is that 2 power or one? It's less than the 5 for red, but also less than the 7 for amber.

Actually, I'm starting to think that the system is so integral to the game here that dice just will not work, period. I will provide a card draw system (still doable following the rules, but your caern will be a customized deck instead of a bag of glass blobs).

So, unless you have a sudden insight - don't worry about it. I have other things that I could your help on, if you're willing...

- having players just choose their Fate colors doesn't work. Nor does associating it with their Passions - someone with a Passion for music will probably have loads of amber motes, and they're likely to associate that passion with the Boon (I have one such player now), so it is essentially the same as pick whatever color you want. The color association to determine the kind of Fate works well, but not how the colors are assigned. I'll also note that the one Fate mote works MUCH better - now it actually means something to get the Fate. Before, it was "I got the Boon again. yay. whoopee." Now it's "Oh crud!! I got a Bane!"

-Mike has been talking to me about putting the colors drawn to more use. All kinds of information in a draw, symbolized by the colors, so there could be plenty of additional info drawn from a draw.

 For example, damage. It comes in multiple colors, but most swords, guns, and such like will do red damage. Some, such as soul-eting weapons, might do blue. When the draw to hit is made, you look at the color of damage the weapon does, and the motes you have of that color, or adjacent colors. The most predominant is the kind of damage it does. Ties - player chooses, or splits however if enough damage is done. If none of the requisite colors are drawn, but damage is inflicted, it goes to default color.

Examples:
  Swinging a sword (R), I draw and get RAAAC, 5 power (assuming a red skill - likely). Swords normally do 1 mote of damage, amber in this case, because amber is adjacent to red, and most of my motes are amber.

  Now wielding a Staff of Stupid (green damage), I draw RBBBMX - 3 Power (assuming red skill, 2 for red, 1 for magenta). Say that's enough to hit - it does 1 point of green damage, since green is default and none of the green or adjacent colors appeared.

  Finally, I am throwing a Feit (I love that pun) which will cause cyan damage. I draw and get RGCMXXX (I'm really good with this one). That's 8 Power, facing, say, a Power of 1 from my target. The Feit will cause 1 mote of C damage to start, because of the successful hit. I also have 2 full sets of 3 Power beyond what was needed to hit (8 Power - 1 power is 7, which = 2*3 +1) so it will do 2 more motes of damage. Bcause I have a tie between green and cyan, I can pick one of those two colors for damage, or split up however I like. The possibilities: 3 green, 2 green and 1 cyan, 1 green and 2 cyan, or 3 cyan.

  So there's damage for you. What I'm looking for is other uses for the color-information in a draw.

Aidan

[Jason Lee]

Hmmm...I think you're on to something here, Jason.

There is no limit to your "stat" (aka Threshhold) in a color, but 10 is a comfortable max. So, you're right - that's not quite right.

Yeah, you could use d10's instead, but that has some shafting effects to low values.

Also, say I have 5 in red, 7 in amber, and 2 in magenta. If I roll my dice, and get a 4, is that 2 power or one? It's less than the 5 for red, but also less than the 7 for amber.

You'd get two power.  Here's an example of what I was thinking.

Red 3, Amber 5, Magenta 2, Aspect 2

Amber contest, Roll 5d6:  1, 3, 3, 4, 6

That's 8 power (2 for every thing below less than 5).

Crap, that really sucks.  Maybe 1 power for just the color of the contest.  That'd make that draw 4 power, but doesn't take into account the adjacent colors.  Or maybe d10's would be better.  Hmmm... You're right doesn't seem to work.  Hafta think about it more.

Actually, I'm starting to think that the system is so integral to the game here that dice just will not work, period. I will provide a card draw system (still doable following the rules, but your caern will be a customized deck instead of a bag of glass blobs).

On that, you are probably right.

- having players just choose their Fate colors doesn't work. Nor does associating it with their Passions - someone with a Passion for music will probably have loads of amber motes, and they're likely to associate that passion with the Boon (I have one such player now), so it is essentially the same as pick whatever color you want. The color association to determine the kind of Fate works well, but not how the colors are assigned. I'll also note that the one Fate mote works MUCH better - now it actually means something to get the Fate. Before, it was "I got the Boon again. yay. whoopee." Now it's "Oh crud!! I got a Bane!"

Hmmm...  How about the color of the contest determining the Fate color?  Matching color equals Boon, opposite equals Bane, equal numbers of adjacent colors equals Wyrd?  However, that has the problem of success tending to equal Boon and failure tending to equal Bane.

As for the other stuff, I'll think on it and get back to you.  My intial reaction is that any extra information you get from the draw should be optional.  Such that in a red contest where you get a lot of clear motes, you might add a magical effect to the contest by removing those clear motes from you bag for a period of time (clear is magic, right?).

EDIT:  Much bad grammar in my post there.

EDIT 2:  Heh, I looked back a page and my Fate suggestion is the same as your original idea! (which I said the same thing to).  Ugh, I'm definitely not all here today.

[Jason Lee]

I'm going to expand upon a couple of things I said, now that I'm thinking clearly.

****

Ok, as far as additional information from the draw, nothing else has occurred to me other than my previous idea about removing colors from the bag when drawn for (basically) additional actions.

For example, if you get 3 red on a draw you can remove those from the bag to add an additional red action to the task. You may return one grass bobbly removed in this fashion to your bag after the next appropriate colored task drawn for. This would mean you'd get those 3 red bobblies back after you've draw for your third red task since you pulled the bobblies.

*****

One thing to be wary of is that the more information a draw presents you with the more complex and restricting (unless the info is optional) the resolution mechanic will become. Let me explain.

Take damage for example. Though the method you list is more interesting, just having damage equal base damage (1 Red) + red motes drawn would be simpler. The more features you add like this, the more a player's brain will have to work during resolution.

For example, you might say that if you get more cyan (or whatever) than red (or whatever) on a red task it requires the task to be described as cyan assisted somehow. Like, taking advantage of your enemy's weakness (cyan is perception, right?). If this is optional, then it might assist colorful description. If mandatory, it'll just impede player choice and create additional mental tasks for the player (they'll have to pause and ask themselves questions like, "How do I assist punching someone with magenta?").

I'm thinking your design goals are simple and free. Though I understand wanting to fully use what you've got, you might want to keep an eye on how much detail you add. I fall into this trap myself all the frickin' time. "It'd be neat if...", "Ooh and yeah." By the time I'm done talking to myself I've got 50 pages of rules on vehicles or something.

*****

On the Fate colors, I had another idea.

The GM could set the colors for the scene/episode or setting (prop: place special bobblies on a color wheel). This could be an interesting mechanic for influencing the feel of individual scenes, as it would allow setting how risky certain types of conflicts would be (play testing being the only way to tell for sure). For example, you might set Wyrd to cyan during a car chase so that it was more likely what weird things would happen when a character notices something.

[Jason Lee]

- How to distinguish between feits and Raptures in a draw? There are actually a couple layers here, from easiest to hardest:
has an Art, throwing a feit
no Art, throwing a feit
has an Art, weaving a rapture
no Art, weaving a rapture (if it's even possible)

I'm not real up on the sorcery rules, but... two ideas.  One using an idea in my above post, and one sort of conflicting with it.

1.  A rapture removes any clear beads drawn from the bag, as per my additional action idea, reflecting power drain.

2.  A feit cannot use adjacent colors in the draw to add to power.  This makes a special case, that sort of conflicts with the rest of the system.

[taalyn]

For example, if you get 3 red on a draw you can remove those from the bag to add an additional red action to the task. You may return one grass bobbly removed in this fashion to your bag after the next appropriate colored task drawn for. This would mean you'd get those 3 red bobblies back after you've draw for your third red task since you pulled the bobblies.

This is a good idea. But as you noted (a fact which I'd come to understand too, as I tried to apply some of my ideas in the last play session), more detail in a draw means more restricted and chaotic story. Not wanted, so I've mostly dropped that idea.

I'm going to keep the damage that way, since conflict (NOT combat) is one of the essential themes. But that's about it. I may present a bunch of these other ideas, but as you suggested, they'll all be optional, and come with appropriate warnings. For example, for the singleton rule (where adjacent colors don't apply, but you can get additional power by describing how other colors apply), you need to make sure all your players are on the same level of creativity and gregariousness.

For example, you might say that if you get more cyan (or whatever) than red (or whatever) on a red task it requires the task to be described as cyan assisted somehow. Like, taking advantage of your enemy's weakness (cyan is perception, right?). If this is optional, then it might assist colorful description. If mandatory, it'll just impede player choice and create additional mental tasks for the player (they'll have to pause and ask themselves questions like, "How do I assist punching someone with magenta?").

The GM could set the colors for the scene/episode or setting (prop: place special bobblies on a color wheel). This could be an interesting mechanic for influencing the feel of individual scenes, as it would allow setting how risky certain types of conflicts would be (play testing being the only way to tell for sure). For example, you might set Wyrd to cyan during a car chase so that it was more likely what weird things would happen when a character notices something.

This is a good idea, and easy to include in the system without adding complication. I'll make sure to note it.

I should also add that I have a new playtest group starting (still alpha, i.e. I'm GMing). We'll be doing SGC - Stargate Crux :)

Anyway, I created the first new character with my new chargen rules. The player had a very clear idea of what he wanted to do, so chargen took all of 10 minutes. It was very cool.

This was also the first application of color rules for Fates where the colors were picked by personality. It worked EXTREMELY well. We were both very happy with it.

I asked:
What are you afraid of? What makes you loose your cool?
   The color appropriate to the answer became the Bane.
What excites you, gets you jazzed up? What invigorates you?
   This was the Boon color.
How are you lucky?
   This was the Wyrd color.

The magic system is the other system mechanic that is going to be complicated, since magic is a major part of the setting. There are three Schools of magic, and each will have different mechanics.

Sorcery - uses the Quiddity of objects. The classic component-spells.

Magery - uses the casters own Quiddity. Your ideas fit here best, and the ideas I have at the moment w are pretty similar.

Wizardry - channels Quiddity from the environment.

Feits (pronounced 'fit', usually working a feit, but becoming more common is throwing a feit) are the Rotes of Mage - standardized spells. So they're generally easier. Raptures are spontaneous, and much more difficult. The effects of a feit or rapture on the character depend on their school. Mages take wounds as they cast, for example.

A.

[Strams]

This may have been mentioned, and Im not sure i understand the entire idea of the game but as for a dice solution..this may help.

Using 6 sided dice... even numbers are assigned Boon or bane.  Odd Dice are assigned the other..and doubles become your wyrds.

The number of dice thrown represent the ammount of chips or cards the player has in their cairn.  

Just a thought.

[taalyn]

Heya Strams!

  Just in case - Welcome to the Forge! =D

  Since you've come in late, I think you've missed a big chunk of the game. In case anyone else is reading the thread (and lost), here's a quick summary:

  Forget all you know about reality. Faeries are real, and so are vampires, centaurs, gods, ghosts, and every being ever imagined. This world is only half of reality, and the other is called the Plasm. These two Dominions are separated by the Caesura, a magical veil.
  Long ago, there was a Compact, which ensured that the Caesura turned the shifting energy (or Quiddity) of the Plasm into the solid Quiddity of teh Tell, and vice versa. That Compact was broken, and as a result, all sorts of things are happening. All of them have led to the War, a major conflict bewteen the Calyx and the Marahh - the Calyx want to restore the Compact, but humans are required, so they fight against the Marahh, who figure all will be well without humanity ruining everything. There are many other political divisions, but they're the two most active.
   Characters are people affected by the War, whether Shoal (unaware of the truth, and generally human) or Noom (awakened beings of the Plasm). Common game themes include ecology, dealing with the Dawning (the awakening process), stopping or hindering the war, and repairing a broken Caesura without getting possessed.

  The game uses colored tokens, generally. Chargen is simple, and uses Aspects, each assigned a color and a number. Say I have Run Red3 (or R3), then I will draw from my bag of tokens 3 for default, and 3 for the # in my aspect. Every red (because that's the color my running is) counts as 2 power, and every adjacent color (amber or magenta, in this case) counts as 1.
  The bag of tokens (the Caern) also has a single token of a different color, the Fate. If I get that, then the other colors in the draw define what kind of Fate I got, whether bane, boon, or wyrd.

  The reason I've given up on dice is that there is no way to use dice to accurately represent the individuality of the Caern. Not without getting very complicated, anyway.

A.