ISBN co-op?

[taalyn]

Does anyone know if it's possible (and legal) to group together to buy an ISBN block? Anyone interested in doing so? I just can't afford a block of 10 (or however many they've gotten up to by now) all by my lonesome.

[Valamir]

I'm not thrilled with the idea of buy 10 at once my self, but the problem is, that only one company is assigned to all 10.  So someone has to buy it but then it shows up under the buyers name in the official records.

[taalyn]

Then maybe we can form a co-op imprint? Anyone willing to gang up together under one label?

[Paul Czege]

Anyone willing to gang up together under one label?

I'd consider it, if we could come up with a name that would offer a clue to anyone doing ISBN-driven research that something unusual was up, and that further research would be necessary to discover the identity of the actual publisher...something like "Independent Publishing Project" or "Resold Booknumber Project."

Paul

[jdagna]

You could probably just include all of the names involved as the publisher.  ("WotC/Steve Jackson/White Wolf Publishing" for example).

Also, I'm not sure how many people would really notice.  In the RPG industry in particular, it looks like most businesses use the GQC product codes most often, and consumers wouldn't care at all.

[daMoose_Neo]

"The Forge Indy Co-Op Publishing"

Why not? Thats exactly what it would be (or at least the "Co-Op Publishing" is usable if the rest isn't)

[taalyn]

Sounds good to me. Any takers?

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

The "Forge" name is absolutely not available for such a purpose, but I suppose the rest is no big deal ...

... although I strongly recommend that everyone acknowledge that you're facing a potential tragedy of the commons. Someone in the group could quite easily use any or all of the numbers in flagrant disregard of any agreement, written or otherwise, signed-contract or otherwise. And by "quite easily," I do mean, "with no particular fear of any possible redress."

"Would we do that?" Well, you might not. Perhaps I'm just a suspicious bastard about everyone (anyone) else.

Best,
Ron

[taalyn]

I think it's paranoia, Ron. =)

  I say IRPGCPG - Indy RPG Co-op Publishing Group.

  I can't believe there's nothing we could do to prevent someone from using another's number. Certainly, the ISBN suppliers wouldn't do anything to support one or another of the group, but legal documents could still be drafted which would hold up.

  But that's only if I couldn't trust anyone else. I can, I don't think it would be a problem. Besides, if it worked well, there's no reason why it couldn't be done again if someone wanted another number. And there are reasonable safeguards (without resorting to contracts and such) that could be taken.

  I'm willing to throw $20 bucks at the chance it will all be fine anyway. It's not as though I would have lost a lot more if we do get an unscrupulous sort (which I'm saying again is unlikely).

  Anyway, I'm willing to give it a shot. Anyone else? Is the name above satisfactory?

[xiombarg]

Yeah, and I'll note this isn't a very big community. Anyone who engaged in "overgrazing" (to use the Tragedy of the Commons metaphore) would certainly have their reputation blackened, and if you don't think that's a condequence worth considering, Ron, you must not work in academia as you claim... ;-D

[Lxndr]

Besides, wouldn't it make sense for it to be a "pay for what you use" sort of deal?  And, when you actually USE an ISBN, don't you have to report the title and whatnot to the ISBN people?  Which would make it difficult for one person to just sorta go "hmmm, I'm gonna use all of these!" without some sort of paper trail.

So whoever is the contact person for the "Independent RPG Resold Number Project" should probably outlay the ENTIRE initial cost, since as the contact person he's probably the only one who can file the specific title/edition/etc. for an ISBN once it gets used (and at that point, if it's used by someone other than him, that other someone would reimburse the contact person).  Someone using an ISBN without having the contact person file with the ISBN people would then be disregarding ISBN-person policy.

Of course, that's assuming I've got the right idea on how ISBN numbers work.

[madelf]

Just throwing some ideas around...

Perhaps the co-op could be set up in such a manner that members would pay a small amount in dues which would cover the initial cost of a minimum set of numbers (and maybe there could even be a little support organization with newsletters of what members are working on and new releases, or something if people were into that). You'd probably need to set it up like a club, with president, treasurer, etc just so there would be some structure for who's responsible for what.

Then each time someone put out a book, they'd pay to the co-op the amount that a single number would break down to. That way, when all the numbers were sold, there would be enough in the treasury to buy a new set. That way, if someone is unusually prolific and ends up using half the numbers himself, it's all good, as he paid for them and more are always available.

And thinking about it, this co-op idea could be expanded as well. Maybe co-op members could buy advertising in groups also. One fee for a given ad, split up among several members who are all featured in the ad...that sort of thing.

There's a lot of possibilities in a co-op, once it's started. It all depends on how far the members wanted to push it.

Group convention presence?
Member discounts arranged with a POD printer?
It's own PDF/POD sales site?
Webpages for members on the co-op website?
Brand recognition? (Just the co-op name could be used as a "status symbol" once word got around, with a logo for members books, etc)

[Lxndr]

You know what I just realized.

We already have the beginnings of a co-op in the "No Press Anthology."  Is there anything stopping us from expanding the idea of the "No Press" into something that does more than just anthologies?  Just a thought.

[talysman]

You know what I just realized.

We already have the beginnings of a co-op in the "No Press Anthology."  Is there anything stopping us from expanding the idea of the "No Press" into something that does more than just anthologies?  Just a thought.

at the very least, you might want to consider naming it "The No Press Publishing Co-Op".

and to address the question on how to distinguish the individual publishers, why not just use that as the collective imprint as well?

this is why I suggest using "Co-Op" in the name; it makes it clear that the imprint, in contrast to a mainstream publish venture, is a cooperative group of independent publishers. no central editor or administrator makes a decision about which games get published, it's entirely based on how much work each publisher is willing to put into publishing their individual product.

as for how to handle the tragedy of the commons effect: when the ISBNs run out, you have to buy more. whowever received the most benefit from the last batch has to pay a larger share. in other words, if ten people chip in equal shares to buy ten ISBN numbers, each is guaranteed one ISBN. if more numbers need to be bought, the people who didn't use their numbers yet don't have to pay for the next batch. the guy who used five numbers has to pay 40% (10% of the value of each number used, minus the one guaranteed number.)

[age_of_dissent]

I believe that a co-op such as you described could work well. The payment system described by madelf would sort out any problems with people overusing the numbers.

I would possibly be interested in such a group, although I'm not sure if I could. As far as I understand it, ISBNs are allocated by different agencies in each country, and I don't think I'm in the same country as any of you guys.

I certainly can't afford £135 for a block of 100 all by myself, especially when I'd only be using 4 or 5. (Can you get blocks of 10? Wittaker's only lists prices for 100 or 1000)