Newbie has combat questions

[Earl Aubec]

Hi there. Sorry if these are redundant questions, but I did a Search and did not find the answers I sought. Take it easy on me; I just ran my first ever TROS trial combat last night. I have the hardcover edition. Several questions follow:

1. In the combat example on pg.88, the Senechal declares after the first exchange that Stephen loses 3CP due to Geralt's Duck and Weave. However, Stephen starts with 9CP, and spends 5 dice on his first attack. Yet in the second exchange, he tries to "evade (partially), spending his last 4 dice". That's a total of 9, folks.  So when does the 3CP get deducted? At the beginning of the next round, the example says Stephan will have only six dice in his pool, due to Shock 3, and only 7 dice every round thereafter (I assume this is due to Pain—Stephan must have WP 4, right?). But I still don't see where the 3CP for Geralt's Duck and Weave is deducted from Stephan's pool. What am I missing?

2. In our first trial last night. Two red dice were dropped in one of the exchanges. We didn't want to get into buyng initiative yet since it was a bit complicated for our first exchange ever, so we went to a contest of Reflexes to determine whose blow struck first. Well, each combattant rolled 2 successes so they tied there as well! Since both were thrusting for the chest, and neither can defend, does this mean they skewered each other simultaneously? They also tied with 5 successes on the damage roll! Neither were wearing armor over their chest, but one's Toughness resulted in a level 4 wound to the chest. the other guy took 6 wound level. He dies instantly, pierced through the heart, the other guy drowned in his own blood a while later. Sound right? Or did I miss something? On a related question, if the contest of Reflexes had not tied, would the winner would have struck first. In this case, assuming the wound is severe enough, the loser's attack would never even land, correct? Assuming a medium wound, I'm guessing the loser's attack would instantly be subject to Shock penalties, correct?

3. On Table 4.4 Evasion Target Numbers, pg. 84, where the results refer to "the next exchange": Does this "rollover" to the first exchange of the next round in the event the result is generated during the second exchange of the current round? For example, say it's the second exchange of Round 1 and I successfully (partially) evade. Does that mean I can pay 2CP at the beginning of Round 2 to automatically take the initiative, therefore obviating the need to throw down red and white dice? Or do the combattants still throw the dice, yet I can spend 2CP to be the aggressor even if my opponent throws down a red die?

4. Are there offical errata to the hardback book published here or elsewhere?

Thanks in advance.

Earl

[nsruf]

Hi, I am pretty new to the game myself, but maybe I can help.

1. In the combat example on pg.88, the Senechal declares after the first exchange that Stephen loses 3CP due to Geralt's Duck and Weave. However, Stephen starts with 9CP, and spends 5 dice on his first attack. Yet in the second exchange, he tries to "evade (partially), spending his last 4 dice". That's a total of 9, folks.  So when does the 3CP get deducted?

I noticed that too, and believe it is an error (not covered in the errata). By the rules, the duck and weave should help the former defender's next attack. So Stephan has only 1 die for defense (or 2 if you assume that half of 5 dice used for offense is rounded down).

At the beginning of the next round, the example says Stephan will have only six dice in his pool, due to Shock 3, and only 7 dice every round thereafter (I assume this is due to Pain—Stephan must have WP 4, right?).

WP 4 sounds right.

2. In our first trial last night. Two red dice were dropped in one of the exchanges. We didn't want to get into buyng initiative yet since it was a bit complicated for our first exchange ever, so we went to a contest of Reflexes to determine whose blow struck first. Well, each combattant rolled 2 successes so they tied there as well! Since both were thrusting for the chest, and neither can defend, does this mean they skewered each other simultaneously?

Yes, this is even confirmed under the description of a thrust on p. 64.

They also tied with 5 successes on the damage roll! Neither were wearing armor over their chest, but one's Toughness resulted in a level 4 wound to the chest. the other guy took 6 wound level. He dies instantly, pierced through the heart, the other guy drowned in his own blood a while later. Sound right? Or did I miss something?

Sounds right. Red/red is lethal if neither combatant can or does use block and strike or evasive attack.

On a related question, if the contest of Reflexes had not tied, would the winner would have struck first. In this case, assuming the wound is severe enough, the loser's attack would never even land, correct? Assuming a medium wound, I'm guessing the loser's attack would instantly be subject to Shock penalties, correct?

AFAIK, shock is applied first to the dice the other combatant has already declared. So yes, if shock reduces these to 0, he doesn't even get to attack.

3. On Table 4.4 Evasion Target Numbers, pg. 84, where the results refer to "the next exchange": Does this "rollover" to the first exchange of the next round in the event the result is generated during the second exchange of the current round? For example, say it's the second exchange of Round 1 and I successfully (partially) evade. Does that mean I can pay 2CP at the beginning of Round 2 to automatically take the initiative,

I believe you have to pay the 2 CP from the remaining pool of the current round. But then you have initiative in the next round if it was the second exchange.

therefore obviating the need to throw down red and white dice? Or do the combattants still throw the dice, yet I can spend 2CP to be the aggressor even if my opponent throws down a red die?

You don't throw red/white dice every round. The winner of each exchange is the agressor on the next exchange and the loser has to defend (or buy initiative, or attack second). This also carries over from one round to the next.

4. Are there offical errata to the hardback book published here or elsewhere?

Yes, on the official TROS homepage at

http://www.theriddleofsteel.net/support/errata.htm

---

Now to add a rules question of my own for the more experienced players: does a full evade always break of the engagement even if you fail to dodge?

[Earl Aubec]

I noticed that too, and believe it is an error (not covered in the errata). By the rules, the duck and weave should help the former defender's next attack. So Stephan has only 1 die for defense (or 2 if you assume that half of 5 dice used for offense is rounded down).

Oh, man. I spent so much time pouring over the rules trying to reconcile that!

Yes, this is even confirmed under the description of a thrust on p. 64.

So it is. Thanks!

Red/red is lethal if neither combatant can or does use block and strike or evasive attack.

You're telling me!

AFAIK, shock is applied first to the dice the other combatant has already declared. So yes, if shock reduces these to 0, he doesn't even get to attack.

Got it. Thanks.

You don't throw red/white dice every round. The winner of each exchange is the agressor on the next exchange and the loser has to defend (or buy initiative, or attack second). This also carries over from one round to the next.

D'oh! I was confused by The Order of a Round break down on pg. 73. It says to "continue steps 2-6 until the end of the bout, or the flow is interrupted". Since Step 2 is Initiative, I thought you had to throw down at the beggining of every round.

Yes, on the official TROS homepage at

http://www.theriddleofsteel.net/support/errata.htm

Thanks for the help!

Earl

[Lance D. Allen]

nsruf covered 1. fairly well. It is probably an error that slipped through the fine netting cast by our errata writer. Nobody's perfect.

2. You've got it precisely right on all counts. Double reds suck.

3. To clarify, you do not throw initiative at the start of every round. Whoever won or kept th initiative on the second exchange of the previous round has it for the first exchange of the next round. In the case of a partial evasion, the defender cannot win the initiative unless he pays the 2 dice; otherwise, the initiative stays with the attacker. The only times you throw initiative are at the beginning of a new combat, or during a lull in combat, or any time when there is no clear decision as to who won the initiative.

To further clarify, any time the book refers to the next exchange, it may mean the next exchange in a given round, or the first exchange of the next round. shock penalties, penalties due to maneuvers like Beat or Bind and strike, etc. all carry over into the next round if they are incurred on the second exchange.

4. nsruf also covered this sufficiently.

Brief question: Why do you refer to it as the hardcover edition? There never was a soft-cover edition, unless you're referring to the old leatherbounds, or the first supplement, Of Beasts and Men.

[Earl Aubec]

Brief question: Why do you refer to it as the hardcover edition? There never was a soft-cover edition, unless you're referring to the old leatherbounds, or the first supplement, Of Beasts and Men.

I dunno. I guess I've been hearing about this game for over a year and a half, but never encountered the book on the shelf until about two weeks ago. I figured there may have been less expensive online or soft bound editions until Driftwood came up with the bucks to do this hardbound edition.

Sheepishly,

Earl

[Lance D. Allen]

No worries, friend.. Oh! And Welcome to the Forge, and the Riddle of Steel boards. Can't believe I failed to catch that on the first time 'round.

We're a sometimes rambunctious bunch, but any questions you have, we can generally answer or give perspective on with a quickness.

[Brian Leybourne]

unless you're referring to the old leatherbounds

*grumblemoancomplainleatherboundeditions* I never got one of those, I wasn't quick enough. It's always irked me a little. In fact, I seem to recall Jake saying that the orders were so thick and fast that he forgot to keep one for himself as well. So neither of us have one :-)

Oh, and yeah, about the questions: what they said. Red/Red is nasty and it's usually advisable to think about sim b/s, evasive attack, etc. Oh, and as a house rule (not official) I apply range penalty to the reflex check to see who strikes first. Wouldn't make made a difference in your case with 2 rapiers, but when a spear and a dagger go red/red, it's a bit bizarre for the dagger to strike first...

Brian.

[Spartan]

nsruf covered 1. fairly well. It is probably an error that slipped through the fine netting cast by our errata writer. Nobody's perfect.

I'm not?  Sheesh, way to ruin my self-image, Wolfen. ;)

*Ahem*  Yeah, I missed a few things... maybe I'll give the text another scan one of these days and see if I can't find the last one or two errata.  Work's been slow lately. ;)

-Mark

[Jake Norwood]

1. In the combat example on pg.88, the Senechal declares after the first exchange that Stephen loses 3CP due to Geralt's Duck and Weave. However, Stephen starts with 9CP, and spends 5 dice on his first attack. Yet in the second exchange, he tries to "evade (partially), spending his last 4 dice". That's a total of 9, folks.  So when does the 3CP get deducted? At the beginning of the next round, the example says Stephan will have only six dice in his pool, due to Shock 3, and only 7 dice every round thereafter (I assume this is due to Pain—Stephan must have WP 4, right?). But I still don't see where the 3CP for Geralt's Duck and Weave is deducted from Stephan's pool. What am I missing?

Damn. Yeah.

2. In our first trial last night. Two red dice were dropped in one of the exchanges. We didn't want to get into buyng initiative yet since it was a bit complicated for our first exchange ever, so we went to a contest of Reflexes to determine whose blow struck first.

Good call.

Well, each combattant rolled 2 successes so they tied there as well! Since both were thrusting for the chest, and neither can defend, does this mean they skewered each other simultaneously?

Sort of. You forgot the WP roll to resolve ties. If that one ties, then you have a simul-skewer, I believe.

They also tied with 5 successes on the damage roll! Neither were wearing armor over their chest, but one's Toughness resulted in a level 4 wound to the chest. the other guy took 6 wound level. He dies instantly, pierced through the heart, the other guy drowned in his own blood a while later. Sound right? Or did I miss something? On a related question, if the contest of Reflexes had not tied, would the winner would have struck first.

Yes. Although I think Thrusts might bend that a little, but for now, I say yes.

In this case, assuming the wound is severe enough, the loser's attack would never even land, correct? Assuming a medium wound, I'm guessing the loser's attack would instantly be subject to Shock penalties, correct?

That's correct, though I'm still suspicious on thrusts. Also, Shock penalties can come out of the pool, not necessarily the incoming attack, as some have suggested.

Jake