Psionics

[doubtofbuddha]

Psionics is a pretty major component of the Mindshadows setting, so I had to spend a bit of time deciding what, exactly, I wanted to do with it.

At first I was leaning more towards having it so each individual power would be something along an animist's fetish or charm with an individual having to travel into the Collective Unconcious to overcome the mental constructs of others and their own unconcious in order to gain new abilities.

I eventually decided that the affinity/feat model (Though I am going to call them disciplines/powers).

Subsets of a larger Philosophy are called Schools, each of which has its own secret. Each psionicist can be a member of any number of different schools. A psion has a 20% time requirement from his primary school and 10% for each additional one. He is expected to maintain the majority of his time and loyalty to said school. It is permitted to change primary loyalties though that might incite reprisals from particularly vengeful gurus.

Once a psion learns the secret of his school he is considered to be a Guru and can, if he likes, establish a new branch of his school.  The development of a new school (and the secret to go with it) requires extensive questing into the Mental Plane, a place outside of time made up of the collected beliefs, thoughts, and fears of the peoples of the world.


Anyway here is the major psionic philosophy of the primary Empire. I will be filling in individual schools (called ashrams) later.

Sujahnism

Psionics have always been part of the lands of Naranjan. The beats and creatures that inhabit the land have had the abilities for countless generations before modern civilization arose and probably will even after the great civilizations fall (and then rise again). In their modern incarnation, though they did not exist until the efforts of Sujahna came to fruition. A Brahmin devotee of Meeta, goddess of healing and wisdom, Sujahna was forced to allow Nivashan soldiers to take away dissidents after they had fled into the refuge of her temple. This opened her eyes to the crumbling of society so she vowed to leave it, never to return.

Sujahna made her way to the Amaranda Jungle to die, but she failed to accomplish that, instead dodging Amarati hunting parties and making her way to the nest of amradha. Amradha normally attack those that violate their nest. They didn't attack Sujahna and, over the course of many weeks she lived with them, watching them and learning from them. After many weeks she came to a startling realization: that the natural magical power of the creatures of Naranjan was in fact the power of the mind unleashed. She vowed to unlock this power herself and, after years of meditating and fasting, she not only unlocked these powers but mastered them, honing them to a degree that she could develop those not found in any of the creatures of Naranjan.

Sujahna believed that these mental powers, which she called psionics, were as much a gift of the gods as any of the other forms of magic. Unlike the others, anyone should be able to access these magical abilities, allowing the people of Sudarsha the ability to throw off the hated caste system. With this in mind, she returned to her homeland and opened and ashram. She taught her secrets to any who would listen, though those of higher caste looked upon her ashram with disdain considering it mongrel magic. So, slowly but surely, members of the lower castes, Jendram, and other undesirables began to learn the magic of the mind.

Sujahna's original vision was that the self-mastery she taught at her ashram would eventually filter throughout Sudarshan society. She believed that everyone – including the Nivashan – would come to realize that order begins within oneself and is not imposed from the outside. In her way, Sujahna was a Sudarshan patriot. Despite her hatred for the failings of her society, she also saw much good in it and hoped that psionics might provide the means to stem the tide of corruption and decay. Unfortunately her students did not share this vision.

Many of the more adept students, such as Varitap Suru and Amrij Dharash, saw psionics as the means to gain power politically. They started their own schools and began to train their own students. Only a few shared Sujahna's philosophy, the rest believing that change would only come through the conflict caused by the Nivashan's loss of power. The psionics ashrams ended up being the final ingredient to do just that, serving as the spark that eventually brought the empire low.

Today, with the rise of Empire under Vasudha, psionic schools retain the prominent role in society they carved out in the wake of the fall of the Nivashan. Vasudha even goes so far as to provide patronage of them that counters his usual stance of favoring ever-stricter enforcement of the caste-system. The Brahmins largely oppose this, but Vasudha, as always, rules as he sees fit.

Sujhanism is the youngest of Naranjan's religious philosophies and in recent years has been one of the most influential. Sujhanists accept the existence of the principles, as described in the Matyanas, but reject the goals they set out for humanity. They believe that, rather than being forced to go through numerous incarnations with the goal of eventually being able to transcend samsara, that an individual can, using the mind and will-strengthening techniques of psionics, either transcend samsara in a single lifetime or at least shorten the total time required to reach it.

It rejects the caste system, believing that it is not needed as a foundation of a society where an individual can transcend the cycle of samsara in one lifetime.

Sujhanists view the gods as nothing more than beings farther along the path to enlightenment then humans. They can be respected, emulated, or admired but not worshipped. Some radical groups go so far as to oppose the gods, believing that the caste system was designed by the gods to spiritually train soldiers in their war against the asuras, thus showing that the gods have no moral authority over humanity.

Sujhanism is fractured into a number of different ashrams, each led by a spiritual teacher known as a guru. Individual psions may learn the techniques of a variety of ashrams, but may only ever call one guru "master." This results in advanced psions having an array of alliances and obligations that typically are inherited by any ashram that a psion who becomes a guru leads. Individual students typically are more concerned about understanding Sujhanism as a whole to bother with the subtleties of the message of individual ashrams. Most gurus go so far as to refuse to teach anyone who does not have the potential to become a psion.

A good Sujahnist focuses on internal understanding and discipline first and foremost. Moral development in Sujahnism is a difficult process, as throughout one's life, one must identify one's own limitations and then transcend them. These limitations are not the physical ones of the body, but rather the ones of the mind. Sujahnists believe that the power wielded by the greatest psionicists is available to all humans and demi-humans, but the mind is blocked from remembering how to unleash them. The gods imposed this block on creatures to make sure that they could not wield ultimate power until they were ready to do so. The Sujahnist must unlearn these blocks and free up his or her natural potential.  In the end, Sujahnists believe that their religion puts the fate of the mind in the hands of the individual, not in the hands of the gods. A fully awakened mind can choose to participate in the war between the asuras and the gods, or not, as they choose.

Abilities:    History of Sudarsha, Meditate for Hours, Revere Sujahna, the Way of Suhjahna
Virtues:    Individualist, Disciplined
Magic:    (Powers): Brighten Light, Create Trinket, Distract Annoyance, Encourage Friendship, Float in Water, Glowing Eyes, Ignore Distraction, Keep Door Shut, Louder Voice, Make Happier, Resist Temptation, Sense Direction, Test Food For Poison, Think For Self, Tough Skin
Great Secret:   Enlightenment (The character immediately attains enlightenment and leaves play)
Discipline Focus: Meditation
Other Side: The Vale of Sujahna is a calm valley where Sujahnists contemplate their life and what they accomplished before moving onto their next lifetime.

[buserian]

Subsets of a larger Philosophy are called Schools, each of which has its own secret. Each psionicist can be a member of any number of different schools. A psion has a 20% time requirement from his primary school and 10% for each additional one. He is expected to maintain the majority of his time and loyalty to said school. It is permitted to change primary loyalties though that might incite reprisals from particularly vengeful gurus.

Possibly more in keeping with the individualist nature most people ascribe to psionics, you might say that there are NO secrets associated with specific schools. Instead, create a list of several dozen secrets. When a psionic master has met the requirements to learn a secret (and these can be by school or by secret), they enter into a "mindquest" to unlock their ultimate hidden potential. If they are successful, they learn the secret that is appropriate to them as an individual. Thus, if they are destined to be a powerful telekinetic, THAT is the secret they will learn.

The schools are thus not teaching a specific ultimate secret, but a specific path to unlock the potential of each individual mind. What great power this unlocks is not a feature of the school, but of the individual.

I think that something of this nature could be very cool in a superhero game, too -- the old Champions concept of spending 50 points at once to drastically rewrite your hero happens here. When a superhero gets to a certain point, they either undergo a nuclear accident, unlock their hidden potential, or otherwise gain a personal secret, one that is appropriate to them.

Um, oops, sorry to hijack your thread! But I think this idea might work really well in any game where the nature of magic or psionics is inherently one of individual differences, rather than rote learning.

buserian

[doubtofbuddha]

Possibly more in keeping with the individualist nature most people ascribe to psionics, you might say that there are NO secrets associated with specific schools. Instead, create a list of several dozen secrets. When a psionic master has met the requirements to learn a secret (and these can be by school or by secret), they enter into a "mindquest" to unlock their ultimate hidden potential. If they are successful, they learn the secret that is appropriate to them as an individual. Thus, if they are destined to be a powerful telekinetic, THAT is the secret they will learn.

Hmmmm.....
That sounds good. How about making it so that each particular secret has a different quest associated with it. So if someone is knowledgable in psionic lore then they are more likely to know what sort of dangers and challenges they would face when going on their mindquest. But I like the idea.

The schools are thus not teaching a specific ultimate secret, but a specific path to unlock the potential of each individual mind. What great power this unlocks is not a feature of the school, but of the individual.

Sure. Do you think the feat/affinity model is the best one to use? It took a lot of thought and internal arguing on my part to reach the decision to use it. I would rather use something that is different, or differentiate it enough so it doesn't seem like it is a theism clone.

I considered making it similar to animism, but that didn't seem appropriate because its mechanics make it feel like its dealing with external entities, and just using talents would be too expensive HP-wise.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Um, oops, sorry to hijack your thread! But I think this idea might work really well in any game where the nature of magic or psionics is inherently one of individual differences, rather than rote learning.

buserian

Its fine, go for it. :)
I think it is perfectly acceptable for this thread to be just as much about discussion of inherent magic in general.

[Mac Logo]

I would rather use something that is different, or differentiate it enough so it doesn't seem like it is a theism clone.

I considered making it similar to animism, but that didn't seem appropriate because its mechanics make it feel like its dealing with external entities, and just using talents would be too expensive HP-wise.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Can I join in? Ooops too late. Anyway, to differentiate it from a theism clone, make the flavour text more like Wizardry. Y'know, Nodes and stuff. Except instead of the nodes being in the Otherworld - they are inside the Mind. "Grimoires" and "Masters" can teach the basics of opening the existing nodes (the ones that everyone has - keep 'em simple ones), but true mastery of psionics comes from questing to create new nodes.
Schools put you on the path with specific rituals that can lead to the creation of known nodes.

Cheers

Graeme

[buserian]

Sure. Do you think the feat/affinity model is the best one to use? It took a lot of thought and internal arguing on my part to reach the decision to use it. I would rather use something that is different, or differentiate it enough so it doesn't seem like it is a theism clone.

I considered making it similar to animism, but that didn't seem appropriate because its mechanics make it feel like its dealing with external entities, and just using talents would be too expensive HP-wise.

I do think theism is the best representation of what I think of as psionic powers -- telekinesis, telepathy, mental illusions, these all sound like affinities to me -- broad powers. Some psionic individuals do seem to have more specific powers, which are almost always either very weak or quite powerful, and that seems to fit very well with feats.

Anyway, to differentiate it from a theism clone, make the flavour text more like Wizardry. Y'know, Nodes and stuff. Except instead of the nodes being in the Otherworld - they are inside the Mind. "Grimoires" and "Masters" can teach the basics of opening the existing nodes (the ones that everyone has - keep 'em simple ones), but true mastery of psionics comes from questing to create new nodes.
Schools put you on the path with specific rituals that can lead to the creation of known nodes.

Very cool suggestion. In other words, link affinities to "grimoire" nodes and feats to "spell" nodes, but make them work in play like feats and affinities. Existing psionic masters can help the psionic hero find the nodes within his own mind, and so "teach" him the magic, even if it is one that master doesn't himself possess.

How about making it so that each particular secret has a different quest associated with it. So if someone is knowledgable in psionic lore then they are more likely to know what sort of dangers and challenges they would face when going on their mindquest.

I would not myself use known quests, because each person's mind and powers are different. A specific school might seek out only members with the potential for certain powers, and so use established methods to bring these out, but for the most part I think schools would teach the general methods for unlocking the secrets of the mind, general rituals and processes that anyone can use. But, ultimately, the final quest has to be undertaken alone. And although many heroes might be eligible in a rules sense to learn their own personal secret (by having three psionic affinities at 1W2 or better), many will wait even longer, or even put off taking the quest, for fear of insanity, burnout of powers, or the like. Loads of fun.

Hmm, in keeping with the nature of mental powers, I would also suggest that you explore the possibility of requiring that heroes select an appropriate personality trait to link to each affinity. The hero would then be required to keep the affinity and the personality trait within 5 points of each other, or risk unbalancing mental problems. (Of course, any trait at 1W2 by definition also counts as an unbalancing mental problem!)

This will definitely "crock" the system for heroes, and it may not be appropriate for the setting, but it seems to fit the fairly common theme that people with strong psionic powers are always a bit crazy, one way or another.

And, to make it even better/worse, if the hero has individual feats that he has paid hero points to gain a bonus in (such as Telekinesis affinity 5W with a feat of Fly +3), it must also be within 5 points of the same trait or have its own associated trait. Seems that psionics who develop individual powers to be much stronger than their other powers seem to have trouble, too.

But, as I said, I merely suggest this idea for exploration, I am not wholly endorsing it. Talk to your players, see what they think about the idea.

buserian

[buserian]

Forgot something.

I considered making it similar to animism, but that didn't seem appropriate because its mechanics make it feel like its dealing with external entities, and just using talents would be too expensive HP-wise.

In Glorantha, sure, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way. The point of animism is about relationships and bargaining. So, a magic system could exist where the animists deal not with external demons, but internal ones. Perhaps your animists can awaken a geneological memory (think of Dune), and bargain with their past ancestors. Or maybe they can learn to gain magic at the cost of fracturing their own mind, and having to deal with "internal demons" that may not be objectively real, but whch are certainly real to them.

And, of course, they can always claim to be dealing with spirits, or even believe it themselves, but actually be performing the magic using psionics. If they don't "bargain" well, their magic doesn't work. Think of it as confidence, or conflicting emotions and beliefs within their own mind. "Magic doesn't really exist, does it? How can I be doing such things?" [Blows roll to "convince spirit to do something".] "See, nothing happened?" [Disbelief in magic sabotaged psionic powers.]

I'm not saying that you should switch to this, but don't take the HQ rules too literally when translating them to other settings -- just because it is true in Glorantha or many terrestrial religions, doesn't mean it has to work that way in your game.

buserian

[doubtofbuddha]

Hmmm....

I like the node idea, yes. It creates an appropriate flavor for "psionics" while allowing the continued use of the simplified affinity/feat model (renamed discipline/power model of course) to simulate it mechanically.

How about rather than having a set of secrets that characters can pick from once they get 1w2 in three disciplines, why don't we have it so that the GM and the player just sit down and make up a secret that is appropriate for the three disciplines and the misc. personality traits and powers that character has acquired over the course of play. The sort of secret a character with Mindbending, Shapechange, and Lightshifting would have would be quite a bit different from one a character that has Biolightning, Body Mending, and Mindscapes.

I also greatly like your idea of tying personality traits to a particular discipline. We could even go so far as to make it so that if an individual fails a contest with a personality trait that depending on the severity of the deat that the power might access on its own, causing (for example) the biolightning to go off on its own or lightbending to cause scillanting light to affect everyone in the area.

Another thing.... How do you guys think time committments should work?
I was thinking of having it be based on ashrams but if the psion is going to have his powers independent of them, then perhaps it should be based on the number of disciplines they have? (Say 10-15% each) With an additional 10-20% based on the ashram they are a member of.  Though we could just give them a requirement of 10%-20% to their ashram and use the associated personality trait as another required point dump and not give it a particular time/hero point requirement.

Perhaps the original two disciplines that an individual has is based on whatever ashram they are a member of and they can define a third with their narrator that is appropriate to the character. The personality traits that their disciplines are tied to are of course up to the player.

As for animism, I am also planning to use it in this setting, as there are two animistic jungle cultures I am going to be using. My original idea was based around the idea that an individual has to enter into their psyche and overcome different facets of their mind (or even go into a Collective Unconciousness and overcome the facets of others to utilize them). With the first view, you could add a time and hero point committment that represents the time a character needs to spend making sure that a particular facet of themselves doesn't become dominant. This can either be through meditation or doing things to placate it or whatever. I think I prefer the affinity/feat model, but this is an interesting alternative...

What do you think?

[Scripty]

Mind if I chime in?

I think the reason that most people default to the affinity/feat model is because it is the easiest to understand (IMO) and the most familiar. I'm more in the camp with Mac Logo, that Wizardry might actually be a better model to use. I think the reason so many people shy away from the model is because it is a bit more complicated than the other two in application and also because it's the last one presented in the book. By the time I got to Wizardry in HeroQuest I was simultaneously amazed at how in-depth the treatments of magic were and also shutting down mentally due to info-overload. It also didn't help that Communal Worship and Wizardry were treated in the same chapter. IMO, it made them look like they were somehow interwoven or that there was some major connection between the two. I've heard some newbies talk as if Liturgists move on to be Adepts and Wizards. While I understand that is possible, it certainly doesn't seem to be the normal progression like Theists becoming Worshippers, Initiates and then Devotees. IMO, the setup of the Wizardry chapter following the ones before it has misled some people in this respect.

With all that said, I think Wizardry is the way to go, especially if your talking about Psionics being disciplines that are taught and learned over time. IMO, the Theism model works better for more spontaneous powers. The Wizardry model works better for powers that are more rote. So, if you had spontaneous Psionics, (in other words if it wasn't a learned ability) then I'd probably go with the Theism model. If Psionics are developed as part of a practice of learning and meditation, however, I'd probably go with Wizardry and here's how and why...

With the Wizardry model, you could have all followers of the School of Psionicists have the ability "Use Psionics" akin to the "Use Grimoire" ability in Wizardry. Subsequently, you could have a series of Disciplines that function as Grimoires would. Such as:

Telekinetic Discipline
Virtues: Steadfast, Equanimous
Secret: All Things Are Merely an Extension of Self
Abilities: Lift Object, Lift Creature, Lift Person, Manipulate Non-Moving Object, Force Blast, Levitate Self, Pinpoint Push, Restrain Creature, Restrain Person, Deflect Arrows, Stop Person's Heart

Clairvoyant Discipline
Virtues: Objective, Distanced, Neutral
Secret: Omniscience
Abilities: See Through Illusion, See What is Hidden, See Invisible, Farseeing, See Other's Death, Divine Other's Future, Danger Sense


Now...

A Psionicist with these two disciplines could use them in a pinch via his "Use Psionics 17" ability. He could use the rating of the power that he is choosing to use as an auto-augment to the "Use Psionics" attempt. So, if he were trying to trip a fleeing pickpocket, he could use his "Force Blast 4w" as a +2 augment to the attempt. Allowing him to roll against a 19.

Now, if the Psionicist has time to focus or concentrate, he can then use the rating of the Force Blast (here 4w). Rather than trying to trip a pickpocket fleeing into a crowd, say he was not engaged in melee and trying to knock an approaching opponent to the ground. The Psionicist could then use a "Force Blast 4w" as his ability.

There are two strengths with using the Wizardry model, IMO.

The first one is that your abilities can augment each other. For instance, if your Psionicist were trying to pick up a set of keys off a hook to open up his cell he could use Manipulate Non-Moving Object as the main ability and then augment with Lift Object. I think this fits well with my concept of psionics. You could decide to do the same thing using the Theism model, but then you wouldn't really be following the Theism model but, rather, a hybrid of that model and the Wizardry model.

The second strength is in its flexibility in determining focii. In HeroQuest, talismans are the Wizards' focii. They allow the Wizard to cast a spell as an active ability. Extending this out to Psionics, I have used "Concentration" above. If the Psionicist has time to center and focus her mind, she can use her rating in the specific power being used as an active ability. Otherwise, she has to use her "Use Psionics" ability.

Alternately, you could say that the Psionics' focus were chants or scriptures. If the Psionicist could not audibly chant, then the Psionicist could not use their powers as active abilities. Or make the focus arcane tattoos. If the psionicist were incapable of touching a specific tattoo on her body (as in it being covered or her hands being bound), then she could not use her powers as active abilities and must take the "Use Psionics" route.

You could even vary focii by School. Say this school uses tattoos. This one uses mudras. This one chants, etc. etc.

Actually, I'm really glad Mac Logo suggested this. I was at a loss for how to do Psionics in Dark Sun - HQ. This has not only given me a new approach (I was previously using the Theism model) but it's also reinvigorated my interest in completing that project. Thanks Mac!

So, that's my suggestion for Psionics. If you want to use it, that's cool. If not, I'm sure Theism would work fine too. Is it okay if I use it for Psionics in Dark Sun though? I don't want to blatantly steal Mac's idea. But it's a REALLY good one, IMO.

[buserian]

Another thing.... How do you guys think time committments should work?
I was thinking of having it be based on ashrams but if the psion is going to have his powers independent of them, then perhaps it should be based on the number of disciplines they have? (Say 10-15% each) With an additional 10-20% based on the ashram they are a member of. Though we could just give them a requirement of 10%-20% to their ashram and use the associated personality trait as another required point dump and not give it a particular time/hero point requirement.

To further muddy the waters, treat each discipline/affinity as if it were a spirit ally, and requires a full 10% of their time to maintain. This would represent training, meditation, time spent sitting near-insane in a corner, mental preparations to face the day, etc.

Time spent with their formal training organization is on top of this. They gain benefits from this (sources of teaching, justification for in-game HP expenditures, etc.), but can go it alone if they wish.

Their secret would not require this time commitment, IMO. And, of course, the hero CAN have more than three disciplines. If they can afford the time to keep themselves sane.

Failure to spend proper time would result in a lack of control of the discipline and its powers, instability in the associated personality trait, etc.

Perhaps the original two disciplines that an individual has is based on whatever ashram they are a member of and they can define a third with their narrator that is appropriate to the character. The personality traits that their disciplines are tied to are of course up to the player.

I'd be cautious about doing this. Sure, some schools might try to force the person's mind into set channels, but that can be dangerous. For the model you are talking about, I personally like most of them just being schools where the players discover their inner powers. Now, this may be WAY too much like Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters, so feel free to ignore it in favor of your own model.

With the Wizardry model, you could have all followers of the School of Psionicists have the ability "Use Psionics" akin to the "Use Grimoire" ability in Wizardry. Subsequently, you could have a series of Disciplines that function as Grimoires would. Such as:

Scripty's model of course works best for a more rote-learning method of developing psionic powers. I can see room in your world for both types.

Not sure I would go with Use Psionics, though. I'd want to think about that, but I might want to be more specific than that, replacing the theist-style disciplines with grimoire-style disciplines.

Oh, wait, that's what he's saying. Yes, I agree this would be the best way to do it. The main problem with this method, of course, is that the HQ wizardry rules specifically tie spells to talismans, and that element (which I think is part of the system's balance) is likely not appropriate here. (For what it's worth, I think the lack of needing a focus is the real reason most people default to theism.)

In other words:

The first one is that your abilities can augment each other. For instance, if your Psionicist were trying to pick up a set of keys off a hook to open up his cell he could use Manipulate Non-Moving Object as the main ability and then augment with Lift Object. I think this fits well with my concept of psionics.

This is actually a problem with using wizardry -- the ability to essentially let one ability augment itself in wizardry is offset by the need to have both the grimoire and the talisman with you. Allowing this sort of augmentation without a focus someone can take away makes psionics very powerful. Too powerful, I think.

Alternately, you could say that the Psionics' focus were chants or scriptures. If the Psionicist could not audibly chant, then the Psionicist could not use their powers as active abilities. Or make the focus arcane tattoos. If the psionicist were incapable of touching a specific tattoo on her body (as in it being covered or her hands being bound), then she could not use her powers as active abilities and must take the "Use Psionics" route.

This partially solves the problem for me, but again, in HQ Use Grimoire does require a focus, and by eliminating it you are, I think, making your own sort of theism/wizardry hybrid. Not wrong, but I'd be cautious.

buserian