Unsung Overhall

[xiombarg]

So, okay, Alexander sent me an email with several suggestions about changing Unsung as a post mortem to the campaign we just ended.

Other people are welcome to chime in. The current playtest rules are here:

http://ivanhoeunbound.com/unsung_playtest.html

His suggestions are extensive, so I'll just post them here, and then respond to them in a seperate post.  (Alexander gave me permission to post this.)

Alexander sez:

 Here are my suggestions, retooled from the Sesson 2 suggestion, augmented with my additional Actual Play experience.  I really hope you incorporate these into the rules, because this is how I'd like to try the game if I ever manage to run Unsung: Post-Apocalyptic.  I'm making  some notes on that sort of stuff too, by the way and when they're more  coherent I'll send that stuff on to you as well.

    Changes from your current system:

1. Now, when a character Lapses, that player gets a Gift Point.  (In exchange for this, a player may no longer spend GPs on the Responsibility oss check at the end of a session, though he can on any called for by the GM during a session)

2. Removal of the "Story Point" (adding the 3 point costs to this list). Changing some Story Point costs.
    a.  Raising or lowering Responsibility or Instinct costs only 2 GP, not 3.  My rationale?  They're more mobile attributes by default, and their mutability is at the heart of the game.  Let it be easier to move.
    b.  Adding a new Descriptor to a Trait only costs 2 GPs, but requires a player vote.  Trumping that vote costs another GP.  My rationale?  This keeps that feature you had in the old system, where player-votes allowed you to get more for, effectively, less.  (There's also rules for changing Descriptors now, which work similarly)
    c.  There's no more "only spend Story Points between sessions" rule.  You can spend these GPs at any time.

3. Officializing the "take over an NPC" GP suggestion.

4. In your system, Responsibility re-rolls cost 1 point apiece, and all other re-rolls cost 2 (in both cases regardless of player).  In this system, all re-rolls for your own character cost 1 apiece, and re-rolls for other characters cost 2.  I can't say I totally have a rationale for this, but my gut says it makes more sense.  In combination with the bonus GP for a Lapse, and the reduced cost to raise Responsibility, this would seem overkill.  And so I split the re-rolls differently.

The Compleat List (which I suggest putting in one place, instead of splitting it up between "spending Gifts" and "Character Advancement"):

Unsung GP Rewards:

* At the start of each session, each player gets a Gift Point
* Whenever a player gives another character (or group of characters) a Gift, he or she gets a Gift Point
* Whenever a character Lapses, and the player opts not to re-roll, he or she gets a Gift Point

Unsung GP Spending:

* One Gift Point can be spent to take over an NPC for the duration of a scene.  If that NPC needs to make rolls, use the statistics of the player's regular character.  The GM is always allowed to veto.

* One Gift Point can be spent to cause any other character to automatically succeed at a Responsibility check, assuming the player of that character hasn't opted to automatically fail the check.  This can be done before or after the player rolls. It cannot be used on your own character.

* One Gift Point can be spent, before rolling, to automatically succeed at a Responsibility check for that player's character, with a DoS equal to the character's raw, unmodified Responsibility.

* One Gift Point can be spent, after rolling, to re-roll any check by that player.  An additional Gift Point can be spent  to allow a different player to re-roll a check for their character.

* One Gift Point can be spent to replace a descriptor on any Trait, assuming the player group votes along with it.  An additional GP can be spent to trump this vote, changing it anyway.

* Two Gift Points can be spent to allow any character to automatically succeed at any check other than an Instinct check, before rolling, at a Degree of Success equal to the character's modified Trait level.

* Two Gift Points can be spent to add a new descriptor to any Trait, assuming the player group votes along with it.  An additional GP can be spent to trump this vote.

* Two Gift Points can be spent to permanently raise or lower Responsibility or Instinct by one point.

* Three Gift Points can be spent to permanently raise any other Trait by one point.

* Special note: Gift Points CANNOT be spent on the Responsibility Loss check at the end of a session, incurred by Lapses.  They can be spent on Responsibility Loss checks within the game, but not after it.

[xiombarg]

Okay, I'm responding to Alexander here. Other commentary is welcome.

1. Now, when a character Lapses, that player gets a Gift Point.  (In exchange for this, a player may no longer spend GPs on the Responsibility oss check at the end of a session, though he can on any called for by the GM during a session)

I totally don't understand why you want this change. The point of the current system is to encourage people, with Currency, to get involved with their own characters.

As per my previous discussions with Mike on this sort of thing, I don't want to give people currency for accepting Lapses, as being set up in an interesting situation from a Lapse should be its own reward, and you should trust your fellow players to put you in an interesting situation.

2. Removal of the "Story Point" (adding the 3 point costs to this list). Changing some Story Point costs.
    a.  Raising or lowering Responsibility or Instinct costs only 2 GP, not 3.  My rationale?  They're more mobile attributes by default, and their mutability is at the heart of the game.  Let it be easier to move.
    b.  Adding a new Descriptor to a Trait only costs 2 GPs, but requires a player vote.  Trumping that vote costs another GP.  My rationale?  This keeps that feature you had in the old system, where player-votes allowed you to get more for, effectively, less.  (There's also rules for changing Descriptors now, which work similarly)
    c.  There's no more "only spend Story Points between sessions" rule.  You can spend these GPs at any time.

I'm fine with all these ideas, and they're highly likely to make it into the final version. Story Points were left over from some earlier -- and very old school -- XP assumptions, and should be excised, making Gift Points the only form of Currency. I was already considering "cutting out the middleman".

I agree with your rationale for lower costs for Instinct/Responsibility changes, especially as raising one automatically lowers the other, which doesn't happen with other stats, and I like your way of preserving my old intent under the newer version of the system with regard to the Descriptor issue.

Spending GPs at any time is fine with me. I've seen changing character stats mid-session work perfectly well in Pretender, so I see no reason not to allow a more regimented version of it.

3. Officializing the "take over an NPC" GP suggestion.

This is highly likely to happen as well, as farming out NPCs is something I wanted to put in anyway.

4. In your system, Responsibility re-rolls cost 1 point apiece, and all other re-rolls cost 2 (in both cases regardless of player).  In this system, all re-rolls for your own character cost 1 apiece, and re-rolls for other characters cost 2.  I can't say I totally have a rationale for this, but my gut says it makes more sense.  In combination with the bonus GP for a Lapse, and the reduced cost to raise Responsibility, this would seem overkill.  And so I split the re-rolls differently.

Well, my gut prefers the current system. Sorry, Alexander, you're going to have to explain this one a bit more.

The Compleat List (which I suggest putting in one place, instead of splitting it up between "spending Gifts" and "Character Advancement"):

Yeah, expect a reorganization of the rules, no problem.

Hmmm, most of the "complete list" stuff I've already adopted or addressed, so skipping to the bottom:

* Special note: Gift Points CANNOT be spent on the Responsibility Loss check at the end of a session, incurred by Lapses.  They can be spent on Responsibility Loss checks within the game, but not after it.

Really, this should have been the rule in the first place, so even without your suggestions, I'm going to implement this. If you don't want to lose Responsibility, use your GPs in the actual scene itself to avoid Lapsing.

[Lxndr]

The change in #1 was introduced in the commentary in the Unsung Session 2 thread (although then it was "when you defeat a Lapse check, i.e. when you succeed.")  It's definitely the least necessary of the bunch, and in retrospect, is probably as unneeded as referring to "Story Points" as separate entities.  Especially with all the other changes mentioned.

As for the change in #4... it's really, truly just a gut thing.  I don't know if I can defend it more than that.  Responsibility/Instinct already seems to have terrific advantages and that's the one that makes me think "too much."  It's probably just an irrational aesthetic thing on my part, but it's something I wanted to at least say.

Glad that you liked my final special note.  It just seemed to make sense to me.  Another "gut" thing.  :)

Btw, is this where you want me to post any ramblings on Unsung: Psionics and the like?

[xiombarg]

Glad that you liked my final special note.  It just seemed to make sense to me.  Another "gut" thing.  :)

Well, in that case, I agree with your gut, for the reasons I mentioned, unlike your other "gut" thing. ;-D

Btw, is this where you want me to post any ramblings on Unsung: Psionics and the like?

I'm thinking seperate thread. I'd like to focus this thread on any suggestions/changes people have for the core rules, and perhaps discuss rules add-ons as a different thread.