Few things. (Everyone, please HELP. esp historical fencers)

[Tigerclaw]

First, let me tell you guys how glad I was to find Riddle of Steel game. I was always a big fan of realism and combat, and this game delivers 150%. Kudos to designers.

Now, what I have also noticed that Riddle of Steel has a similar sistem to several EXCELLENT games and systems: White Wolf, as well as Seventh Sea RPG (before it went d20).

So, here is an idea. If you are DYING for new rules and styles, pick up an old copy of 7th sea and adopt it. Legend of 5 Rings also has incredible number of ideas for styles and schools. If all else fails, there is also World Of Darkness - Combat from White wolf. Great for ideas on fighting styles and techniques. We are still waiting for Flower of battle, but, in the meantime we can spice things up quite a bit, yes?

Which brings me to my first question: When will FLOWER OF BATTLE be released? What about Fey book?

Now, that this is out of the way, would anyone be kind enough to reccomend me where I can buy (for download), manuscripts, manuals, for historical fencing?
Also would anyone be kind enough to brief me which country originated what style of fencing and the differences.
Mind you, I know that Polish and Hungary originated the Saber fencing (also used by Russians). It seems that in most other countries a rapier (epee??) was used either alone (which styles/countries), or in conjunction with main gauche and buckler (who used what?)

I am very interested in studying historical fencing, but as I am leaving US for a long time, I would love to have at least 2-3 manuals for fensing (preferably in PDF format so they take less space in my luggage, lol)

Thank you and...

Keep making supplements for RIDDLE OF STEEL

[Jake Norwood]

Hi Tiger. Thanks!

TFOB is slated for Gen Con, mid-late August or earlier.

The Fey book...we'll see.

What kind of historical fencing are you interested in? See www.thearma.org or www.swordforum.com.

Jake

[Tigerclaw]

1) I would like to know about the different styles of fensing, their phylosophy and approach, how they differ? How Spanish fencing is different from, oh, lets say Italian or German.

2) As for what kind I would like to learn? Well, something that uses rapier + something else (main gauche, cloak, another rapier), or saber or two sabers (that would be Hungarian/Polish style). Also, I would like to learn how to use Pallache (something that looks like a basket hilted double edge sword). Another weapon I am interested in is Halberd. So I would like to purchase some books on the matter, in normal or PDF format. You know where I can find them?

Thank you very much

Hi Tiger. Thanks!

TFOB is slated for Gen Con, mid-late August or earlier.

The Fey book...we'll see.

What kind of historical fencing are you interested in? See www.thearma.org or www.swordforum.com.

Jake

[Jake Norwood]

1) Get "The Martial Arts of Rennaissance Europe" by Sydney Anglo. This is a huge thing to study, and honestly none of the now-popular ways of dividing Spanish from German from Itallian really cut it.

2) There are lots of manuals on rapier use, mostly in Italian.

The Polish style had nothing to do with two sabers at once, but maybe I misunderstood you. Polish/hungarian saber is dead, and I'm not aware of anyone studying it. There are a few books I'm aware of in Polish on the subject, but if you don't read Polish that won't help. THey're of questionable quality anyway. The Pallache is basically a backsword or sidesword, and there are many manuals on the use of that weapon. The halberd...I'm not aware of anything, although most all staff work translates over exactly.

I would reccomend Rennaisance Swordsmanship by John Clements and "The Arte of Defence" by William Wilson for the weapons you're interested in (rapier, pallache).

Jake

[Tigerclaw]

Great, thanx.

What about the medeival manuals? I heard rumors that some of those can be found in PDF format online and purchased. Any truth to that?

As far as those rapier manuals in Italian, where can I find them? My uncle is Italian:-), he owes me several favors:-)))

Oh, the two saber style is Florentian, I believe, or is it two rapiers?
As far as Polish/Hungarian fencing. It is not dead, in there are some materials on it in Polish. I happen to read Polish, so it is okay:-)

Any links to the online manuals or places where I can buy the manuals themselves (medeival old ones), will be appreciated.

Thank you once again.

1) Get "The Martial Arts of Rennaissance Europe" by Sydney Anglo. This is a huge thing to study, and honestly none of the now-popular ways of dividing Spanish from German from Itallian really cut it.

2) There are lots of manuals on rapier use, mostly in Italian.

The Polish style had nothing to do with two sabers at once, but maybe I misunderstood you. Polish/hungarian saber is dead, and I'm not aware of anyone studying it. There are a few books I'm aware of in Polish on the subject, but if you don't read Polish that won't help. THey're of questionable quality anyway. The Pallache is basically a backsword or sidesword, and there are many manuals on the use of that weapon. The halberd...I'm not aware of anything, although most all staff work translates over exactly.

I would reccomend Rennaisance Swordsmanship by John Clements and "The Arte of Defence" by William Wilson for the weapons you're interested in (rapier, pallache).

Jake

[Emiricol]

I have no idea at all how relevant or useful this will be, but http://www.thearma.org/ has books on this ranging from Medieval through Rennaisance.

[tauman]

For a good selection of Italian pre-rapier and rapier texts in pdf format (but all in Italian), go to http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/fencing/manuals.html and also, there is one more pre-rapier text available at http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu.manuscripts/manciolino.pdf

Sadly, there really aren't any modern books out there on the rapier that have much useful information, although there are translations in the works. Personally (and I may take a lot of flack from this, but I still stand by it), I find that The Arte of Defence is not particularly useful for learning much more than the absolute basics of rapier (i.e. what they are, a little bit of history and a few things such as the names for the hand positions, etc). And Rennaisance Swordsmanship is even less useful (while it fired my imagination when I first looked at it, it now sits on my shelf and will remain there permanently). If you must buy one, buy the first (The Arte of Defence).

Fortunately, there are translations of some of the Italian manuals in the works. There is an English translation of Capo Ferro's rapier manual coming out very soon (it might be out already, or perhaps at the end of this month). Sometime around September (or so I hear), my friend Tom Leoni's translation of Salvator Fabris' rapier manual should be available from Chivalry bookshelf (this manual is by far the best of the period Italian rapier manuals, IMO, being the most complete and in-depth).

If you have questions about any of this (for example, what do I mean by "pre-rapier"), let me know.

Also, some information about the rapier and Salvator Fabris: http://www.salvatorfabris.com (sorry to toot my own horn).

Also, you can buy a large selection of manuals at http://www.latourdulac.com/fencing/patri.html These come as staple-bound photo copies of originals.

If you're interested in earlier (i.e. late medieval, early renaissance), I suggest you go to the arma site (which has enough info that you should go to it no matter what you're interested in) at http://www.thearma.org

Finally, if you want something in English now, (God help me for saying this, my being a fan of the rapier), find or buy George Silver's 1599 book Paradoxes of Defence. You can buy a modern book with the original and several essays (from Paladin press, I think), but you can also find the original text online if you do a little searching and don't want to spend the money.

Steve

[Jake Norwood]

Ah, wiec gadasz po polsku, co? A Mozes ty polakiem?

W jezyku polskim jest kziazka "Ciecia prawdziwa szabla," albo jakis podobny tytul, napisana przez Starzewskiego. Trudno znalezc, choc sam kupilem egzemplarz niedawno temu, ja go jeszcze nie otrzymalem.

As for medieval manuals...none of the weapons that you're interested in are medieval. Likewise, what is passed off as "medieval" swordsmanship is in all reality "early rennaisance swordsmanship," if you're referring to the long sword and so on (the 1400's on). The earliest known manual, MS I 33, is sword-and-buckler. See www.chivalrybookshelf.com for that, or www.paladinpress.com for more historical fencing books. But buy them on amazon once you know the titles, because they're cheaper.

The so-called "florentine" style is, so far as I can tell, a myth. That name in particular is unatested historical, IIRC. OTOH, Agrippa and others show fighting with two rapiers or cut-and-thrust swords (the "case of rapiers in TROS), but also tend to say that you must first be proficient with the use of the single sword in both hands before moving on to that. It's mostly a fantasy style, IMO.

As for Polish fencing being dead...modern sport saber fencing is based largely on Polish-hungarian sworces, but it isn't the same thing that you'll find in Starzewski or that Sienkiewicz alludes to. I would email Bartek Walczak (find him via www.bog.pl, which is the Braterstwo Orlich Gniazd/ARMA PL). His site also contains a lot of really fantastic rescources for Polish Historical Fencers.

Jake