Humanity gain for summoning demons?

[sirogit]

I'm abit conflicted over the answer to this question:

1. If someone summons a demon for the purposes of performing a task that equals Humanity Gain, could they get a humanity gain roll for the choice to summon the demon?

My initial judgement is "No, you should get a Humanity gain roll when you actually do this action." But, my reaction to that is that actually summoning the demons is much more the Humanity relevant action, as it puts the Sorcerer at a dire risk for what he wants to do, and after he has summoned it he has already commited to it and isn't making as much of a choice when he uses the demon for the Humanity gaining behavior.

How would you handle the situation?

[Lxndr]

I would give a humanity loss roll for the summoning, and the gain when you actually follow through with the humanity-raising action, whatever it might be.  For most definitions of humanity, intent is meaningless, it's action (not even the result of the action, just the action itself) that is important.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

1. If someone summons a demon for the purposes of performing a task that equals Humanity Gain, could they get a humanity gain roll for the choice to summon the demon?

My initial judgement is "No, you should get a Humanity gain roll when you actually do this action." But, my reaction to that is that actually summoning the demons is much more the Humanity relevant action, as it puts the Sorcerer at a dire risk for what he wants to do ...

That second reaction is, I'm afraid, lawyer bullshit. If he Summons the demon, he Summons it. Humanity is at risk. Furthermore, he has not done the action that you say merits a Humanity gain. I don't care if you amend that with a "yet" or not. He hasn't done it.

A character does not get Humanity gain rolls or, for that matter, Humanity checks, for actions he has not performed.

Best,
Ron

[sirogit]

That makes sense to me. Thanks.

[Mike Holmes]

I just had to add: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. :-)

Mike