Questions I already sent Ron when the Forge didn't like me..

[clehrich]

Hey Ron,

That's what I had thought, but I saw this:

I only acknowledge Total Victory when all of the winner's dice are higher than the loser's, regardless of ties.

I guess you didn't mean that as I read it.

Anyway, here's how I would re-summarize:

1. Put in order
2. If one set has every die above every die in the other set, that is total victory; if not,
3. Eliminate ties at top end to establish winner
4. Every remaining die in winner's pile that is higher than any remaining die in the loser's is a victory

Thus:

10,9,8,7,6 ---- 5,4,3,2,1 : total victory
10,9,8,7,6 ---- 9,8,7,6 : 1 victory
10,8,7,6 ---- 10,6,5,5,4 : 2 victories

Nev, I hope all this has helped.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Chris,

Yeah, I think you read it as the reverse of my meaning. To me, the word "all" is bolded, and the "regardless" means "they are irrelevant, put ties out of your mind entirely, the 'all' is what matters."

Your examples are all correct - even though I just almost convinced myself that it wasn't!

It is insanely easy to do any and all of this in play. It is, however, insanely hard to type out, think over, and exemplify. I do not understand why this is the case.

Best,
Ron

[Nev the Deranged]

Thanks Lxndr, it's good to know I wasn't alone in my borderline dice schizophrenia.

Now that that's all settled...

What about the lingering Stamina vs. Power (or is it Power vs. Stamina?) question from my first post...?

Here is what's transpired thus far:

My original question:
3) A demon in withdrawal from Need (or Binding, or Hosting) whose Power has been reduced to zero, now starts checking for Stamina loss daily, by rolling it's ORIGINAL Power vs. it's ORIGINAL Stamina, right? I lost your other reply to this, because I forgot to save it. D'oh.

Ron's original reply:
Original Power vs. current Stamina. Really sucks for the demon.

My reply to that:
Okay, this one throws me. As I replied via email, this answer is directly contradictory to the book, which on page 59 under The Rule of Need, states:
"A demon in Need will lose 1 Power per day until it is down to zero... At that point it will lose 1 Stamina per day unless it rolls its Power successfully vs. its original Stamina."
This was the source of my confusion. Your answer above, (Original Power vs. current Stamina) makes ample sense, so I will go with that. Perhaps the text is a typo?

And in Ron's final reply he states that he may have had it backwards.

So. There you have the book's text above, which is confusing because a demon is reduced to 0 Power before it starts making Stamina checks, which means as written it would be rolling 0 Power dice vs. its Original Stamina which would of course make no sense.

Ron's first reply, Original Power vs. Current Stamina makes perfect sense to me... the demon's Power in this case acts as a burden on its increasingly unstable material incarnation, threatening to "burst it at the seams" in effect.

So there's the text, and there's what makes sense to me.. Basically, I'm willing to go either way on it, as soon as we get a final ruling.

and let me not forget to thank Ron and the others who posted in an effort to set this poor wayward child on the straight and narrow... or something. =P

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

I'm starting to get cranky, but that's not your fault ...

The book is right. I was merely confusing myself while typing, that's all.

And bluntly, I don't know why you asked the question in the first place when the book is absolutely clear. But that's me getting cranky again, so forget it ...

Anyway, the book says, as you quote:

A demon in Need will lose 1 Power per day until it is down to zero... At that point it will lose 1 Stamina per day unless it rolls its Power successfully vs. its original Stamina.

What exactly is so hard to understand? Its starting Power is 5. It loses 1 Power per day. Five days later its Power is down to 0.

Then it rolls its Power (0) against its Stamina (let's say that starts at 4). So, first day of this series, it's 0 vs. 4. You know how to do that, right? 1 vs. 5. Let's say it fails. Stamina drops to 3.

Second day, its roll is the same: 0 vs. 4; handle as before. If it fails, Stamina drops to 2.

This is straight out of the rules - I really don't understand what you're asking at all.

Best,
Ron

[Nev the Deranged]

Hey,

I'm starting to get cranky, but that's not your fault ...

The book is right. I was merely confusing myself while typing, that's all.

And bluntly, I don't know why you asked the question in the first place when the book is absolutely clear. But that's me getting cranky again, so forget it ...

Anyway, the book says, as you quote:

A demon in Need will lose 1 Power per day until it is down to zero... At that point it will lose 1 Stamina per day unless it rolls its Power successfully vs. its original Stamina.

What exactly is so hard to understand? Its starting Power is 5. It loses 1 Power per day. Five days later its Power is down to 0.

Then it rolls its Power (0) against its Stamina (let's say that starts at 4). So, first day of this series, it's 0 vs. 4. You know how to do that, right? 1 vs. 5. Let's say it fails. Stamina drops to 3.

Second day, its roll is the same: 0 vs. 4; handle as before. If it fails, Stamina drops to 2.

This is straight out of the rules - I really don't understand what you're asking at all.

Because I only within the last couple of days read on the board about how you roll 0 vs X by rolling 0+1 vs X+1, and hadn't yet realized it could be applied to this situation.

This single item of knowledge makes the passage in the book make sense, where it had not before.

Once the demon is down to 0 Power, it rolls 1 vs Current Stamina +1, where failure means losing a point of Stamina.

My confusion is abated.

A thousand pardons for being so slow on the uptake, and for crankifying you, most honorable sensei.

*bows*