Demons are people too (split from Sorcerer in Prison)

[DannyK]

Ron Edwards said:
I guess I need a little bit more understanding. I'm playing a character, and we use the Summoning rules.

In-game, what just happened? Is it all explained in realistic/representational terms, such that a real guy who happens to have this role in the prison is now brought into the story? Or does this guy actually materialize, in a demonic/smokey/scary way, in my cell?

In other words, are you talking about using the Sorcerer rules in order to play a representational situation, as in Oz? Or using them to play a surreal and demonic horror story which happens to be set in (and deal with the specific issues of) prison?

I thought this deserved breaking out on its own.  I've been thinking about this issue for my own little project, and playing around with Demons-as-NPC's.  I think tetsujin and I are both definitely looking at the "representational" side of this, i.e. Contacting is finding a guy who knows a guy... Binding is making a deal with the guy.  Banishing is, I don't know, convincing him to get out of town before sundown.  

I'm wondering about using the Demon abilities.  Some of them aren't too relevant, obviously, but "Big" for example, could be used to mean "really, really tough."  "Cloak" could be used as a form of stealth.  But does this break the rules?  If I summon a ninja dude with Cloak, he's not just stealthy -- he's practically invisible.  Maybe it would be better to stat out the ninja-demon with "Cover: Ninja" at a high level.  

Anybody have experience with this issue?  It's occurred to me that it's thematically appropriate to have at least some Demons with mildly superhuman abilities -- the incredibly dextrous jewel thief, the impossibly tough legbreaker.  I'm not sure how far I could take this without taking things back into supernatural territory, though.  

Long post.  Just one more question for which there may not be a good answer: how would emulate a Demon's ability to have good or bad luck?  Or to confer good or bad luck to someone else?  

Danny

[Mike Holmes]

Luck would probably be a will boost or something.

I think none of what you propose is problematic. You just have to think in terms of story effects, and it all makes sense. The Cloak guy is just that guy that nobody seems to notice, and somehow because of this can go anywhere he wants.

Anyhow, think characters first, and the powers will suggest themselves.

Mike

[Judd]

What Demons can be really busted wide open for me when I read Ron talking about how Sorcerer is a game about disfunctional relationships.  Once that is internalized and you think about any disfunctional relationship as one where there is a power struggle, the possibilities for the system really becomes broad.

Neat topic.

[The_Tim]

If Demons are normal humans they are essentially specialists that PCs use and abuse.  The degree of talent they have isn't what's important - it is how useful they are to the PC that matters.

This, I think, suggests a definition of Humanity.  Those with Humanity 0 are solipsists, they don't see other people as real at all.  Using sorcery erodes one's ability to consider other people as anything more than tools.  

It may be interesting to have this view be correct.  That is any random individual can be a "demon".  The Lore trait is a very powerful social weapon in this set up.

[Judd]

That is any random individual can be a "demon".  The Lore trait is a very powerful social weapon in this set up.

I am about to run a Sorcerer game with humans as Demons in the premise. I hadn't conisdered this point, the power of Lore in this setting, where anyone can be a Demon and its just a matter of scoping their telltale out.

Nice call.

[Mike Holmes]

Hmm. I think that would make Lore somewhat akin to a level of Scoipathy. Which would work...

Mike