[Bruise] Skill and Combat question

[MPOSullivan]

okay, i'm making this rpg with a sort of epic style of gameplay, as was argued to death in the rpg theory section here.  the game has a framework for characters and skills similar to white wolf or cyberpunk designs (i.e.: attrbute + skill) but uses a pretty narativistic engine for gameplay.  the skeleton of my system can be seen through the link in my signature below.  

now, i'm currently putting together a skill list for the game and i've run into an odd connundrum: combat skills.

i'm normally the kind of person that, when playing a game that has a skill list, prefers abstract combat skills.  for example, i prefer to have a general "melee" skill rather than individual skills for "Short sword", "long sword', "pole arm", "spear" and etc.  but, when putting together this game, i've noticed that a more specific kind of combat skill list may work better given the inspiration.  characters in most epics that i've read seem to have their particular combat skills rather intricately detailed (i.e.: "he is excellent with the short sword and quite skilled with the sarissa, but perhaps best known for his ability with the whip"), which would seem to me to translate into a seperate skill listing for each weapon.  

i've even noticed that in epic style rpgs there are weapon-specific skills.  Heroquest uses specific skills for each general type of weapon (short sword, long sword, spear, axe) and Pendragon does the same.  While Exalted uses the general "melee" and "archery" skills, the game also has a number of feats that can be learned to further optimize weapon use.  then again, i don't feel that Exalted really emulates the "epic" fell through its system much at all.

so, my question is this:  what would work better in an epic style rpg, a weapon-specific skill list, or a broad "melee" and "ranged weapons" type skill list? is it truly important to know what specific weapons a character knows how to use, or is it better to just have an overall index of how capable a character is in combat?

i'm just looking for opinions here.  i'm a little stuck and would like a couple of kindly hints.  

thanks guys!

[Nathan P.]

While epic characters do have their specialties, they are also known for being able to fight with any old weapon, if they need to. Like, sure, Pecks von Studley prefers his two-handed triple-hooked double-blood channeled Flamberg'o'Doom, but when he's disarmed by his archnemesis Evil McDeath, he's perfectely capable of whipping the short sword out of the guards sheath and laying about with abandon.

So, perhaps some kind of broad skill (Melee, Swords, etc) with a mechanic for requiring specialization, and maybe a bonus when using that weapon? I guess this depends on whether you see weapon specialization as color, or whether you want it to be part of the system itself.

Hope that helps.

[Shreyas Sampat]

I find that there are two kinds of equipment in things that we generally call epics:

The Significant Thing. Excalibur. The Gandiva Bow. The Sword of Amaterasu-Omi-Kami.

The Significant Thing isn't a person, but its role in the story is just as important as that of a human in the story. It is, in effect, a character with its own quirks, goals, and effects on the world independent of the person who wields it, though it may have something to say about who this person is.

The Heroic Attribute. Anything else. The Heroic Attribute shows how heroic a hero really is, by having no impact at all on what's going on.

Hope this helps.

[MPOSullivan]

heya guys, thanks for the quick responses.  

Both of you seem to be hitting on the same point, one that i kind of overlooked, though you attack it from different angles.  In certain epics, it's not the type of weapon, but the weapon itself that is important.  The Spear of Destiny, Excalibur, etc are the items that empower the characters, not the fact that they are wielding a Short Sword or whatever.  And, as Nathan points out, it doesn't matter if a character is weilding a broken rapier or an Ancestral sword forged from the arm bones of God, he's still going to be a kick-ass warrior.  It's the signifigance of the item that makes the difference.

While i generally don't like specialization systems in games, perhaps a simple "My character prefers to work with a shorter, lighter blade, so i have a +1 with Short Swords" would be un-crunchy enough to make me happy when dealing with the "favoured weapon" clause.  

Also, while i could have a weapon bonus system, a la DnD for powerful weapons (as the setting doesn't have magic), perhaps something else would work better considering the setting and inspirational material.  The game has a system for character personalities called Memes.  It's all about belief, both societal and personal, and channels Spiritual Attributes via Frank Herberts "Fear is the Mind Killer..." axioms.  (i have a post about it started here with more info about the ideas behind Memes.)

It always seems like characters in epics have to go on great journeys and quests to get their Significant Item, placing themselves in harm's way alot to retrieve it, or get the materials for it or whatnot.  Perhaps through this, the characters can develop Memes based on their belief in the S.I.  As such, when a character gets that weapon, they will aslo develope a Meme related specifically to the weapon.  So, not only do they get a fine weapon, they have one that they've invested personally in and will immediately be better with because of the Meme.  something for me to think on some more.

thanks guys!  and keep the thoughts and comments coming!