Sorcerer: When does Vitality Kick In?

[Doyce]

Reading the recent post on Damage Effects and Demon Abilities reminded me of a question I keep forgetting to ask.

The situation:
 1. I have Vitality conferred on myself.
 2. I have taken damage in combat.
 3. Combat Ends and I have a chance to rest for a bit.

Do I:
 1. Use Vitality to subtract the Demon's Power rating from my current lasting dice penalties, then halve the remainder as normal, or
 2. Halve the lasting dice penalties, then subtract the Demon's Power rating from the remainder. (A much more powerful interpretation.)

[Eric J-D]

Hi Doyce,

I am new to Sorcerer so this might be wrong, but here's my thought (someone correct me if I'm wrong).  In both the examples there seems to be some double dipping going on.  As I read Vitality, it removes lasting dice penalties up to the demon's Power following rest rather than halving them per the normal resting rules.  So I think you either use the Vitality and remove a number of lasting penalties equivalent to the demon's Power  or you rest as normal (sans Vitality) and reduce lasting penalties by half.

Since both Vitality and the normal resting after combat rules require rest, I don't think you get the benefit of both, but as I said I am new to Sorcerer and could be utterly wrong.

Eric

[Nev the Deranged]

Indeed.

page 56, Vitality:
Dice of lasting damage... up to the demon's Power are removed when the user takes a rest following combat, as opposed to half the damage. Vitality also confers resistance to aging, but not total immunity.

Newbie or no, you were bang on.

[Doyce]

Ahhhh....

Now I can join the noble ranks of GMs and players who have posted this:

"Good grief, how many times did I read the passage without seeing that."

I'm so proud.

[Bill Cook]

Doyce:

I'm so glad you posted this.  It's made me think of Vitality in light of making an efficiency to apply the damage effect of death.  (Which would be a house rule, in any case.)  As I looked at the numbers to see how Vitality options to lower a high, lasting count to stave off death, its intent dawned on me: to zero or reduce low-to-middle counts.

So there's no point in binding it to a macro.  It's a strictly After Combat timed effect.

[Fabrice G.]

Vitality also has some resisting pain-damage effect :

The description of Vitality should include some kind of general statement that the demon's Power is often used as an addition to the user's score for all sorts of reasons which involve resisting harm or strain.

See this thread for reference.


Fabrice

[Bill Cook]

In the thread you reference,

Maybe the demon's Power is 7 but my Stamina is only 5. Using the Boost at full power will begin to tear me apart.

Hunh?  Why would Boost ever hurt its target?

Secondly, more to your point, it sounds like Vitality might give you a bonus as Power if you were being tortured or trying to resist knock-out gas, etc.  But it doesn't (1) affect total penalty counts for damage effects during combat or (2) act as a bonus to the Will check for self-mastery, does it?

[Fabrice G.]

Bill,

the Boost reasoning in that thread was that at one point a character is a normal to weak person (assume a Stamina of 2), and, all of a sudden, he's becoming some big bad motherfucker  (suppose a Power of 6, it's like he has a monstruous Stamina at 8 !). So, in some instance of the game, depending of the customization, it could be asked how much does your body can endure through a Boost before breaking appart.

For your second matter, I'm not sure of antthing. The point Ron made could clearly be understood as to validate either your first point (Vitality then does confer bonus dice against damage penalties). Personnaly, no, I don't read it like it should give a bonus to the Will roll for self-mastery.

But a lot depends of the definitions and the customizations you make in your game.

Anyway, my main point was that the text in the book (cited by Nev) had been clarified and that the ability gained a new "application".


Take care,

Fabrice

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Bill, the effect of sustaining a Boost that exceeds your own score by a certain amount is outlined pretty carefully on pp. 76-77 of the core book. In fact, it's a key example for the general principle of the Currency of the game.

So it's a little odd to see any confusion about that ...

Check out that text and see if you have any further questions; I'll take'em here. But for now, yeah, getting Boosted to higher than twice your relevant score is dangerous news. I use the same rules for a Possessor demon utilizing its own Stamina rather than the host's when it exceeds twice the host's score - that's how a key NPC died in my necromancy game, in fact.

As for Vitality, there are no rules for applying the ability as a bonus - (and this is a very important sentence) which means the general rules of Sorcerer apply. In other words, if situation X is occurring, and if the aesthetic nature of Vitality in your game ought to operate against X, then the ability's dice (demon Power) can be utilized as a score for whoever the ability confers to.

I cannot over-emphasize how important the "look and feel" of sorcery and demon-stuff in an individual game is. The rules give you how much and against what; the customization for your group gives you when and (artistically speaking) "why."

Final point: the role of any ability in the self-mastery Will roll is up for grabs in that particular game, but I strongly suggest that if a demon is going to help its master do this in any way at all, then it damn well has a reason.

Best,
Ron

[Bill Cook]

So it's a little odd to see any confusion about that ...

That's just the water from the firehose that didn't make it into my mouth:)

But I'm clear now.  The example is thorough.

Interesting point on principle of customization.  So my suggestions would fall under that category.