Settings / Genres etc. ???

[Autocrat]

ALright, sort of a retarded post... but I want to see the responses....

As a large number of people seem to feel that settings are an important aspect of RPG design, (particularly when designing the rules!), I thought I'd see what people make of the following ideas....


Cabal.
Dark, gritty, realistic etc.
Brains over brawn, knowledge is power etc.
  Set  on earth, covering modern times, (yet will cover earlier periods as well, from 1600 onwards I think!), the story setting revolves around the Cabal, and institution created to observe, record and respond to the paranormal and manifestations of darkness that threaten humanity.
  The Cabal has chapter houses throughout the world, based in major countries and cities.  Ther Cabal consists of a varity of Orders, including those that deal with science, research, detection, protection, mystic, arcane etc.  It also has links to goverments, military organisiations and other external bodies.
  The characters will either be external affiliates or new recruits to the Cabal, and are likely to have an area of expertise... be it they have strong knowledge, para-normal powers, training in detection/location etc., what ever field is likely to be of use.
  The setting is meant to be dark, gloomy, filled with shadows, trepidation, disbelief and the unknown.  It will be down to them to investigate, discover, respond to and deal with manifestations of of the black arts, evil psychics, external entities etc.
  Based loosely on things like Buffy/Angel, Resedent Evil/Silent Hill, and all those old pulp-horror books from the 70's.

Add-ons......
* alternate time periods, including alternate eqipment, skills and objectives etc.
* alternate character base, including para-normal species that have been recruited.
* dark masters, play as the bad guys and try to prevent the Cabal from interfering.


There are several othersetting ideas, but i can't find the notes on them....which is a problem!


So, is that a start for an interesting setting... others already like it, questions, querries, suggestions?

[xiombarg]

There are a lot of ideas for settings out there. The appeal of a given setting is going to vary widely, depending on who you ask.

Your best bet is to focus on a setting that you find exiting, and not worry about what other people think. Your excitement will come out in the prose, and the game will be one that you want to play.

The trick is to focus on what makes this setting cool for you -- what is it about Angel, Buffy, etc. that you like -- and focus your setting and mechanics on those things. Everything else is "fat" and can be trimmed.

[Autocrat]

ah, but the mechanics have nothing to do with the setting, (sorry, just the way I view it... the engine has little to do with how the car looks!).

So saying, I agree with you that it is the prose that hooks poeple.... yet it's not just for myself, I want others to like it too, so I must consider what people like as well!

[dalek_of_god]

ah, but the mechanics have nothing to do with the setting, (sorry, just the way I view it... the engine has little to do with how the car looks!).

Mechanics may have nothing to do with the setting, but they have everything to do with the game and the story. To extend your vehicular analogy, trucks and sub-compacts require different engines. If you want to tell mystery stories the mechanics need not care whether the setting is down the street or in outer space, but they do need to support solving a mystery. The games played in the same setting with different mechanics will have very different results.

[Keith Senkowski]

Autocrat

I have to disagree about setting and mechanics being separate.  The mechanics have to fit the setting, otherwise it isn't going to work.  A setting that has a world were everyone can do magic easily would be hindered by overly complex mechanic for casting spells.  

To use your example of a car, the engine has a lot to do with how a car looks.  It's size and power effect the over all design of it.

Setting and Mechanics work hand in hand (if you have a setting that is).

Keith

[taalyn]

ah, but the mechanics have nothing to do with the setting, (sorry, just the way I view it... the engine has little to do with how the car looks!).

Ooh, that is so not right! ;)

The engine influences what the car looks like in lots of subtle ways - where the engine goes, how big it is, where the exhaust is, etc.  This is basically the "System Does Matter" argument, and there are plenty of threads and articles on this site.

Other than that - setting looks fine, but what are you going to do with it? Just asking if we like a setting doesn't mean diddly - there are plenty of games with excellent settings that never get played, for various reasons. Focus on making a setting you'd be jazzed to play, and they will come.

Aidan

[Matt Machell]

Okay, you want to focus on your setting in this thread. So consider this exercise:

1: Sum up your setting in one paragraph. As if you were selling it to me on the back of the book.

2: Think about all the other games that sound exactly like that blurb. Alter the blurb to make yours stand out.

3: Remove one sentance. Repeat steps until you have only one sentance left.

Now why have this blurb? Ultimately it's about concentrating the idea down until you have your core concept really well defined in your head. So that you can sell it to gamers easily (and by sell I mean, convince to play).

Something key to remember is: Where's the conflict? What makes this setting interesting right now.

-Matt

[DevP]

I'm quite eager to see your answer's to Matt's suggestions (good ones!).

So, there's the whole "system might matter" thing, but since you disagree, just make sure your system does handle the setting. (i.e. I'm not using My Life with Master to play RIFTS.) Anyway, about the setting:

So, the Cabal is a secret society I take it? Incidentally, this gives the game some good focus/help: culture is basically modern culture (so you can dive right it, imagining the world and tossing out popculture with total abandon), the society gives you an in-game reason for your group to be together, and many gamers in fact LIKE the whole "splats" thing you see in World of Darkness and the like (which is the vibe I got from the different Orders) - if you divvy up into discrete Orders, it makes the big pill more easily swollowed in the form of several little pills.

In that respect, I'd recommend some voluntary guidelines on how to put together a "team" (ideally having players think about how they want their team to interact, with each other and with Cabal higher ups), and make very clear how (or if) Orders will mix up when played together. Lots of Mage games were bad because every Mage picked their own Tradition (and character story in general) without any consultation with the group, resulting in a party of mages that had no real shared set of values or reason to be working together beyond the raillroad.

Beyond that, I feel that it would be better to focus on a very specific time/situation for play (frex, modern), even if you have the extended timeline to back it up: you want to focus on the very spacetime where the action is going down "RIGHT NOW" and being thrown at the players. (The difference between roleplaying the 1950s and the 1960s.) I feel it's best if a setting has some "kick" built in, that basically is knocking the society out of its status quo and that gives something players can latch onto.

Finally, what in the setting material / history is going to emphasize that stuff you were talking about - "dark, gloomy, filled with shadows, trepidation, disbelief and the unknown"? If you can fill the setting with color (showing them, not telling them), that will do a lot of help GMs understand this. If the setting is filled with potential situations that players will play "gloomily/darkly" (playing, not just showing!) that that's the best.

(I think you were building INI (the system, right?) to have mechanical addons for specific setting. Are there any system details you're going to use in this regard?)

I'm confused about the Buffy/Angel reference, though. IMHO, Buffy and Angel take a very light-heartened approach to the horrors from beyond, and isn't really so gloomy at all.

[Autocrat]

...MAtt & Dev...

  Thank you both.....

MATT, youre idea for compacting was brilliant, and I will attempt it... focusing on the aspects of the why/how/who parts I take it.
One sentecne is going to be tough though!

DEV, the interest is encouraging, and I guess I better go through my notes and plush them up a bit, eh!
AS to the mechanics backing the story with addon's, it means that I have parts of the rules as Necessary, and others that are optional and not core rules... this measn that you can play magic, psionics etc. with more detail.
(kind of important if you have those character types!).


...THE MECHANICS vs. SETTING  ////   MECHANICS & SETTING...

Wrong thread peoples.... I'm asking about what I typed regarding the CABAL, not what preferences/perspectives people have... I have mine, and thats it, you have yours, and thats that!

Further, every anology I or you use can be used in reverse anyway... it really is a matter of taste....think of this question............................

"do you prefer adding salt when cooking, or after cooking?"

[smokewolf]

I like that alot. Sounds similiar to my game called The Swing, except mine is not meant to be as dark.

Its ultra realistic, set in modern times, with beings who guide and assist mankind toward enlightenment.

Features Include:
Secret Initiatives
Realistic Combat
Unique Skill Applications
Unique Experience System
In-depth Character Creation
Real World Magick
FEAR

Check it out when you get a chance:

Free demo @ www.93gamesstudio.com/downloads/demo.pdf
or

PDF @ www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2256

[Olibarro]

Huh. And here we thought we were being original with a very similar idea. Kinda takes the wind out of my sails.

[DevP]

X-Files. Dread. Unbidden. Hunter. Buffy. (And on a bad day, an extremely drifted game of Toon.)

All of these hit up the urban fantasy/conspiracy/spooooky vibe (with and without cool powers), and all of them mix it differently. So remember that (1) every idea as already been thought up, but (2) only you can bring your individual vision to the table.

As ever, it's a good idea to figure out what's so great about your individual vision (so you don't waste your time Heartbreaking), and to figure out how to get there.

[Autocrat]

OK, I'll bite... twice...

Firstly.... why do people insist that all things have been previously conceived..... surely not..... it's just that none of US have come up with something NEW..... YET!!!!!

I cannot honestly believe people really think it isn't possible/likely to generate something new....... be it mechanic, rule or material...... there must be something..... (how about a resoloution mechanic based on what colour socks players are wearing and the size of their waist.... bet that hasn't been used before!  LOL see, it can be done!)

Seriously though... it's a little disheartening to see people say things like that when we're all meant to be creative!
PLEASE BE MORE POSITIVE.... it's not
"NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN!"
it should be....
"NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN, YET, BUT MAYBE IN ABOUT 5 MINUTES or SO!"



Second bite......
Someone sent me a very poignant and acurate personal post... making a good analogy of archetechture/engineering to my post on Setting/Mechanics.... so saying, I wish to retract my previous statement...
Instead, I will state that I do not see setting and mechanics as wholy interlaced entities, and beleeive it is possible to generate one without the other, then to tailor the mechanics to suit the setting as needed!
(sound better?)

Right..... so thanks for the posts......quick question.... how keen are people on RPG's where there is a strong chance of dying, fairly quickly.... or suffering herendously most of the time?

[Ben O'Neal]

Right..... so thanks for the posts......quick question.... how keen are people on RPG's where there is a strong chance of dying, fairly quickly.... or suffering herendously most of the time?

Strong chance of dying quickly? Depends... what's the incentive to take the risk? I mean, if your game is simply about putting yourself in harms way, and doesn't provide a damn good incentive for doing so, I'd wonder why I was playing it. If death comes to people who simply want the risk, but the game isn't really all about that, then I have no problem with deadly mechanics (my game, Eclipse, had what might be seen as deadly combat, but that was not the sole focus of play).

But suffering horrendously most of the time? I love it! If you can make mechanics where my character will suffer horrendously it will really bring home the dark nature of your setting. But don't make it "most of the time". In order for pain and suffering to be effective, there needs to be relief so you don't grow accustomed to it. Instead, make it "alot" of the time.

So tell me more. I really want to know how my character will be tortured and why they will keep pressing on, knowing that only more pain will come. Show me why my character will martyr himself, and I will play your game.

-Ben

P.S. Don't know if this is something you might want, but how about some mechanics that show a struggle against "falling to the darkness" of what I am investigating? Like, if my character is finding all this really cool black magic and shit, why won't he just join in to reap the power therein? Where is my struggle? Answer that, and IMHO you have the beginnings of a damn cool dark game.

[Autocrat]

ah, now you have hit upon a sort of cross thread problem I'm thinking on....
on one hand, I have this setting idea, that I'm kind of intrigued by as it keeps growing, and altering itself... I seem to have little to do with it, it's just there, doing it's thing and filling me in on the details as it goes....
on the other hand, I have this system of rules and mechanics.... which is meant to be  flexible and mutable, permitting different styles of play....
yet, would it be considered as altering the system/mechanics/rules if for this setting I have it that Cahracters will need to make roles against "presence" and "will", , where as in other settings, this won't be neccessary?
Is that considered as altering the mechanics, or is it just another version of using strength to lift heavy things, and will to resist, and presence to force back non-manifested entities etc.?

Still... the setting...
the reason I asked about pain etc. is that one of the fundemental aspects of the setting is dealing with the paranormal.... things that to the normal peoples of the world... just aren't right.  The results of this are temptation and corruption, (cthulu), breakdown of physical and mental resolve and will, (the pain), the loss of personality and mental health, (life in general)... it goes on... it depends on what people are up against, how the respond, and how nasty the adjudicator is.

No real martyrs... you shouldn't die to often, unless you tend to get off on the wrong side of the track and such... shooting at insubstantial telekentic beings isn't going to work... no matter how good a shot you are!