Another new Demon Ability

[sirogit]

I came up with the idea for this ability while watching B:TAS's Two-Face episode. It breaks alot of the fundamental rules of the game so I'm not sure how disruptive it would be. Perphaps someone could illimunate on that.

Judgement:
While considering a Humanity Check promptiong action, the user may use roll the Humanity check BEFORE commiting the action, and thereby see if it would result in Humanity Loss or Gain.

First problem: It removes the drama of the humanity check result. I guess that's the fundamental problem of it.

Second problem: It doesn't seem to have to have a 'cost' as it seems like it should, so perhaps any Humanity loss that they user would take would incur two points of Humanity loss, another game-altering idea.

Still, it hit me as openning up alot of intereasting situations about being controlled by threats, even if Humanity would have to be somewhat customized for it to make thematic sense.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I'm a big fan of Batman: The Animated Series, most especially of the Two-Face episodes, and I have no idea where you're getting your inspiration for this idea.

I think that the effect you're looking for, unless I'm mistaken about that, is already present when a player is aware that Action X will consitute a Humanity check. If the player is unsure, he or she can always ask.

The randomized Humanity rules are the most important thematic motor of the game. I think messing with that will cause muchas problemas.

Best,
Ron

[sirogit]

This is very likely stating the obvious, but:

The inspiration from the idea came from the episode Two-Face Part II, in which a motif is established(which isn't really carried out as satisfactorily through the rest of the series.) That two-face makes his moral decisions on the flip of a coin.

At first I didn't really understand what the hell they were thinking, and than it hit me that it works thematicly because the nature of Two-face is that he le's random, external factors decide for him to be his good side or his bad side because he can no longer decide for himself.

So, I thought it'd be intereasting if players faced a similar dilemnia, when they know the completely random results of moral action, would they let it guide their ethical decisions?

I can see that it probably has too many marks against it to assume it'd work for Sorcerer, but it's still an intereasting idea.

[Nev the Deranged]

Yeah, but Harvey doesn't use the coin flip to decide whether a specific course of action is Good or Bad. He has TWO courses of action, one Good, one Bad, to choose from, and lets the coin flip decide which he will DO. Which is completely and utterly the opposite of what you are suggesting. Maybe you know that and just got the inspiration for the idea from it, which is fine, but I just wanted to make sure that Two Face's thematic gimmick was clear.

On a only-barely-related note, I did used to have a relic... the Gambler's Coin... that affected people's luck based on the flip- heads meant bonuses to whatever the person was trying to do, tails meant penalties. Of course someone actually had to flip it for the effect to take place, for better or worse.

I can see lots of possibilities for a Token or Object demon in the form of a coin, that's just one idea.

Boy, I just can't stay on topic to save my life, can I...

[sirogit]

Well, the common thread for the episode and Sorcerer which resonated powerfully for me was the idea that good or bad actions can be temporarily rendered impotent by pure chance. You keep being stable and actions sooner or later will have meaning, in the form of Humanity Loss or Gain. That's what I read the character's thematic gimmick as: He's not going to be stable, he's going to let fortune dictate whether he does the good or bad action in the first place because he doesn't think he can escape it's control on the results.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I consider Harvey to be still deciding on the options represented by the toss of the coin, prior to the toss. He's not "randomizing his decisions" at all, any more than the protagonist of the novel The Dice Man is doing.

Best,
Ron

[DannyK]

There's also the argument from probability.  If the player who has Two-Face as his Sorcerer character keeps flipping and randomly choosing good or bad, about 50% he's going to do bad stuff, and he's going to fail at least some of those Humanity checks.  

If the player has a demon with Judgement, then he'll NEVER fail a Humanity check unless he wants to, right?  I don't know what effect that would have on the game, but it definitely wouldn't model Two-Face.  

(The Dice Man -- what a book!  It's rare to meet someone who's read it.)

[Nev the Deranged]

Hello,

I consider Harvey to be still deciding on the options represented by the toss of the coin, prior to the toss. He's not "randomizing his decisions" at all, any more than the protagonist of the novel The Dice Man is doing.

Best,
Ron

That's what I said, but your emphasis isn't redundant- while the choice between the two paths may be randomly decided, the actual courses to choose from are delineated by the two facets of Harvey's persona.

I still chuckle over the time the doctors at Arkham tried to treat him by weaning him onto dice, then cards... trying to give him more options for behavior... but it took him so long to make a decision about anything, he ended up more or less paralyzed- sitting in the corner wetting himself because he couldn't decide to go to the bathroom.

And of course, Batman gave him his coin back... because Batman is defined by his villains, and they by him. Batman never kills any of his antagonists because they are all part of his own psyche. But that's too deep to get into at 2am...