[Sorcerer] Effects of Perception

[Bill Cook]

Had some questions related to my Actual Play thread that seemed better devoted to this forum.

My first thought on doing surprise (which I take to be synonymous with what Sorcerer calls Perception) is how D&D does it: one or two on a d6 means you don't get to go for one or two rounds.  I re-read the pages on Perception and did a search (which returned every post ever; either my search-fu is weak or the search feature sucks; my ego prefers the latter), and still have questions:

[NOTE: This is all in the context of combat.]

[*]When is a Perception check timed?  After the unexpected thing is announced?  After all actions are announced but before rolls?  After rolls?  After the turn in which the unexpected thing happens?
[*]What are the effects of failed Perception?  Does it prevent announcement?  Abort their action?  Prevent other than defense?
[*]When is a failed Perception effect timed?  Prior to the subject's turn?  During it?  On his next turn?
[/list:u]

e.g.  A demon has a sorcerer pinned and announces to strike a finishing blow.  That sorcerer's demon announces to explode through the wall (surprise!) and bowl his master's assassin over.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Bill,

Well, this is one of those things that I suggest tearing down entirely and then starting from scratch.

What to tear down? All RPG traditions of "check for surprise." Just lose'em, gone.

What's Sorcerer offer? The possibility already in the system that you are caught flat-footed.

If his highest die is higher than yours, then you are surprised. Were all of your faculties (based on the relevant score) engaged? Yes they were (you rolled all your dice for your action). Did it therefore get "under your radar?" Yes it did.

And if you rolled higher, than it didn't. Very easy!

I think that we need to step even further back, however, and deal with the announcement phase.

GM: It crashes through the window!! Announcement phase!
Players: But are we surprised?
GM: Dunno. You'll find out. Announce as if you weren't, but bear in mind that you might want to narrate an "abort" as if you were.
Players: (all announce stuff like leaving quickly or attacking or whatever)
GM: Roll! (everyone rolls)
Then conduct play as normal, perhaps including one or more players aborting their actions due to low values and choosing to narrate it as "gee, I was caught flat-footed."*

So where's our Perception check? Our "am I surprised" prior to announcing actions? Our whole D&D based approach to this happens, then we roll this, now we know the order, now we go in order?

All gone.

Best,
Ron

* Remember that Sorcerer has no rules for who narrates actions. That is on purpose. All narrations are presumed to be subject to Social Contract, i.e. consensus, and where the "buck stops" is absolutely negotiable among the group (as long as it stops with someone, and everyone knows who).

[Ron Edwards]

Whoops, forgot.

A demon has a sorcerer pinned and announces to strike a finishing blow. That sorcerer's demon announces to explode through the wall (surprise!) and bowl his master's assassin over.

Everyone rolls. The sorcerer's demon gets a couple of bonus dice for tactics.

No problem, no extra rolls, no "perception checks," none of that stuff.

Best,
Ron