[Seven Systems Legacy] - new version of "big ole robots

[pilot602]

Ok here's the quick run down on the "new" spin on the big-robot game I'm working on (see the [Big Ole Robot] threads). There's still a lot of the old in here but it's really an entirely new spin on things as I had them previously.

The Seven Systems Legacy

We still have the Eldan and Humans.

The Eldan
Eldan actually started out life as the Kluarks. The Kluarks create genetically-engineered clones of themselves, who are nearly emotionless, to lead their civilization. Prompted by passages in their Old Religion the Kluarks believed that they should not trust to themselves to govern one another, thus the creation of emotionless, rational, clones the society calls it's "Elders." Eventually the Kluarks become known as the Eldan. The Elders develop an interstellar technology and in testing it make their presence known to Humanity. However, the Eldan are still unaware of Humans.

The Humans
Humans have lone since turned earth into one, united capitalistic society but still allow government to handle "good of the people" type tasks. One of these tasks is SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) and it is SETI that discovers an experimental drone used by the Eldan to test interstellar technology. Humanity brings the drone back to Mars, turns it over to corporations who reverse engineer it thus making humanity a space faring race.

Interstellar Travel
While both civilizations now have the capability for interstellar travel it still takes many years to travel any appreciable distance.

The Great Expansion
Both civilizations expand roughly at the same time. However, the impetus for each is different.

Humanity, fearful of an advanced race – and searching for the next big profit – starts expanding by colonizing and populating habitable worlds.

The Eldan expand as a natural extension of research and furtherance of the civilization.

Civil War
Both the Eldan and humanity suffer civil wars and rebellions as each expand their interstellar territory.

The Eldan divide amongst themselves over the wisdom of allowing the Elders to continue in their role as leaders. Over the first few years of their expansion the Elders seemed to have grown more and more irrational in their decisions and as such many of the common Eldan begin to question their decisions. The civilization divides into two camps and a very bloody war breaks out.

Humanity fights amongst itself as a result of its opportunistic and profiteering nature. In doing so the evolution of the MAIS takes place. Essentially an armored, and armed, walking forklift the invention is used to tear into ships hulls and allow Armored Exoskelton Infantry Suited shock troops to take control of the ship. MAIS quickly fell out of use as they were too slow and too big to be of much use in atmospheric conditions and after the initial surprise of first few deployments anti MAIS defenses make it's original purpose much too difficult to achieve.

The Uniting Factors
Humanity comes across several more of the Eldan drones as it expands and fights amongst itself. One of the drones is a warship. On the warship is evidence of great destructive power. Humanity rushes to reverse engineer the ship and, fearful of an invasion, unites the empire and starts building a large armada of interstellar warships.

Also discovered on the warship are the home world coordinates of the Eldan with which the newly formed United Earth Empire sets out to invade rationalizing that a surprise attack would be the best defense.

The Eldan Wars had stopped all forward exploration efforts as the Elders strived to retain and return order to their civilization. During the wars many of the common Eldan returned to the nearly forgotten ways of the Old Religion and in doing so realized that allowing the Elder's to lead is the right thing to do. The war draws quietly to an end and the civilization picks up where it left off. However, the war served as a training ground for many young Eldan who had never studied the arts of warfare.

First Contact
As the UEE marches towards the Eldan Homeworld they come across the Eldan Perimeter Colonies and thus begins the Great War. The first few colonies fell easily but as word of the invasion reached the Elders the Eldan dug in and braced for a vicious battle.

The Great War
Lacking tactical expertise the Eldan may have been easily overcome by the human forces had it not been for the Elder's and the Eldan's ability to learn quickly. The Eldan Civilization was also far the superior in terms of technology. Eventually the war grinds to a stalemate along the Crescent Systems and a stationary front is developed. Neither side wanting to give up its hold the front remains contested for nearly 50 years.

The Seven Systems Cluster
Just before the UEE marched into the Eldan Space the last few scheduled Empire Expeditionary forces were sent out in the direction opposite of the Eldan March in search of more Eldan technology with which to help bolster the UEE war armada.

As was customary private, corporate sponsored ships also accompanied the government vessels in part to help pay for the excursions.

One force, the 459th Mechanized and Privatized Expeditionary Force, came across a small cluster of seven systems. Nicknaming the systems "The Seven Systems Cluster," the force entered each system and found that the third and fourth planets of each system were not only habitable but held evidence of a vastly superior race once having lived there.

In each of the systems, the fourth planet was home to a mega-city. Generally these cities occupied nearly 80-percent of the available landmass on the largest continent. The remaining continents, usually representing about 40-percent of the total available land mass on the entire planet was left relatively untouched except to farm.

These mega-cities were highly automated and of a technology level never before seen. Stretching for literally thousands of miles the center of each city were comprised of a cluster of four, 6,000 foot tall buildings. The streets were hundreds of feet wide and each city looked as if it had just been constructed the day before. Yet no sign of the original inhabitants could be found. It were as if one day every living thing simply disappeared.

On the third planet of each system, however, a discovery was made that would forever change the fate of Humanity and the Eldan.

Located directly on the equator, on the largest continent, on each of the third planets, a large metal disc is found. This disc is actually the floor to a large elevator platform. Once the secret to operating the elevator is found research teams travel down inside to a huge underground network of hangar-like rooms and giant hallways. After each of the complexes is explored, and cross referenced to the other complexes, research teams work the elevator down one more level only to find that the top level was merely a warehouse for the factory that is the second level.

Each of the seven factories seem to have the same machine, yet each also produced different parts creating a seven-fold redundant system wherein each individual factory was capable of producing the complete product yet at the same time producing extra items so that the stockpile from all seven factories could, apparently, be assembled elsewhere.

The Seven Systems Machines
The machines these factories built were large, bi-pedal, piloted robotic machines. Similar to the MAIS idea humanity briefly toyed with these were far superior to any fighting machine known to the UEE and later it would be learned the Eldan Empire.

Each machine was constructed via an outer shell fitting over a skeletal system or chasis. The strange thing was that even though they were obviously machines of war no weapon systems could be found save a strange assortment of large hand-to-hand weapons.

These machines were discovered to have the ability not only to fly but to enter and leave planetary orbit, travel at extremely high rates of speed via running or flying and they were even so powerful as to engage in a completely new type of interstellar travel dubbed as "Needling."

While humanity was unable to completely reverse engineer this new technology they did learn how to operate the factories and built several test examples of these machines.

In testing it was found that the pilot-machine interface seemed to adapt to each individual pilot. In other words, the machine had a rudimentary AI that would adapt itself to the uniqueness of each pilot. One problem was noted with this system – the machines did not seem to be able to handle switching pilots very often. Once a machine had become adapted to a specific individual it was better to only allow that individual to pilot that specific machine. A different pilot would not interface easily with the machine once it had become "branded" to another pilot.

Once in the cockpit the pilot would enter a deep trance and the interface would literally wrap itself around the meditating pilot. Once the man-machine "melding" was complete the pilot would feel as if he or she were actually part of the machine and as such the ability of a pilot to react and translate those reactions to the machine were as quick as thought. It was even found that if a pilot were to wear a standard-issue AEIS suit the machine would still interact with the pilot at very little loss in translation.

Once a few test pilots were comfortable with the machines several tests were conducted. First the pilots were tasked with simply walking around the warehouse. Once this was mastered the machines were lifted to the surface and running and flying trials were conducted. Once basic maneuvers were mastered atmospheric egress and ingress was studied and finally the Needle Drive in each machine was tested. The machines performed flawlessly with a learning curve that was shockingly easy.

The only draw back to the machines was the lack of any ranged weaponry. Apparently the machines were designed for melee combat and as such no ranged weapons, or designs, could be found.

As a result human engineers developed retro-fit "frames" that would attach to the back of each machine onto which any assortment of weapons could be fit. And with a limited understanding of this new technology developed specific weapons capable of damaging a machine similar to the one weilding the weapon. These weapons were of such weight that only large interstellar ships or the Seven Systems Machines, themselves, could carrying them.

The machines were also tested for damage capacity it was learned very few conventional weapons could harm them but nuclear weapons and high-yield explosive could damage them enough to slow them down or knock certain systems offline long enough for opposing SSMs to attack the wounded machine. Essentially it boiled down to the only thing that could stop an SSM was another SSM as the powersource required for powering the weapons systems were only reproducable via reproducing the machines themselves.


The Proliferation
Of course the privateers that accompanied the 459th Mechanized EF saw profits in large war machines that could not only be sold to the UEE but to worlds and systems wishing to break free of UEE control. But first and foremost they saw profit in selling SSMs to the UEE with which the UEE could end the Great War in a decisive victory.

The fate of SSMs as a "free market" product was sealed when it was discovered that these factories could reproduce themselves via the use of self produced, "Self Emanating Energized Deployment" – or SEED pods. A SEED pod could be dropped in a non populated area and within a month the pod would build a fully functional factory without no outside intervention. Against the orders ofthe 459th Commanding Officer the privateers got hold of two or three SEEDs and had them secretly sent back to various planets across the UEE.

Literally only months after the initial batch of SEEDs were spread throughout the UEE, factories and corporations began clamoring to sell their new weapons of war to the highest bidder.

The UEE tried to control the spread of the technology but the technology had already been unleashed and the double problem of the technology being too simple and too powerful meant it was nearly impossible to control  with law or edict and would eventually have to be kept in check by use of similar technology.

However, that was a problem that could be dealt with later. The UEE purchased hundreds of thousands of SSMs and sent them to the front lines of the Great War.

The Problems with Seeders
The amount of resources necessary to construct an individual, fully armored SSM was enormous. And the key materials used to create the machines were rare. Doubly troubling was the infastructure needed to obtain the materials was nearly non-existant in the early stages of the Proliferation.

The machines used what was dubbed "Black Thyron;" a super dense, super strong form of what could only be described as "steel" that was native to the Seven Systems Cluster. Strangely enough the Seven Systems Cluster still supported an overabundance of the necessary resources which made the abandoning of the Systems even that much more bizzare.

However, even though Black Thyron was not a common material, it did occur and could even be found in the Sol System. But having few ways to mine the material many of the SEEDling factories would simply substitute inferior grades of materials thus leading to the derragotry term "Seeder." It was also around this time that the existence of theSeven Systems Cluster was generally made known and thus two names became attached to the term SSM; Seeder for any SSM manufactured outside of the Seven Systems Cluster and 7FM for SSMs manufacutred at the original Seven Factories. Eventually the UEE would procure most of the SSM from the original Seven factories but in the early stages of the proliferation they took anything they could get.

The most common area to skimp on in SEEDling factories was the external armor of the machine. Generally SEEDling armor was far inferior to the original armor designed for the machines. But even Seeders were extremely powerful and fast machines that were nearly unstopable and thus they sold.

the Great War Ends
Once enough SSMs (Seeders or 7FMs ) the UEE bought thousands upon thousands and deployed them to the Crescent Front. Upon arriving at the front the machines laid waste to all but the most fortified and strongest held points where upon more machines were thrown in and even these point eventually fell. As the Crescent Front started to collapse, the Elder's realizing that this new technology the humans were wielding was nearly unstoppable, called for a truce. The UEE warily accepted, now worrying about threats from internal factions, and eventually the two sides learned of their mistakes and how their paths crossed.

Recognizing the peace and stability the Elder's form of government offered the UEE agreed to merge the two empires into one – under a mixture of democratic and genecratic (as humans had come to call the idea of genetically engineered leaders) forms of government. The leaders of the UEE hoped that with the power of the Elders the government might finally take control away from corporations and lead the human worlds to a more peaceful and less competitive existence.

And Old, New Threat
Of course because humanity was steeped in opportunistic and capitalistic traditions a new threat now endangered the newly formed Elder-Human Government – and that threat was internal factions, opportunism, or simply put Human Nature.

With the proliferation of SSMs nearly any organized faction with access to even as few as three or four SSMs could be a formable problem. And thus th EHG developed the EHG Stellar Police. Equipped with the latest advances in SSM retrofits (lightweight, heavy capacity frames, strength enhancing modifications, armor modifications as well as other tweaks) this force was tasked with putting down an potential uprisings within the EHG Corridor (a line of populated systems between the Eldan Homeworlds and the Sol System).

Legacy of the Seven Systems
With the Great War ended and the Eldan and Humans now allies the humans shared their discovery of the Seven Systems cluster and allowed Eldan engineers access to the original Seven Factories. While not even the Eldan could fully understand all of the technological discoveries found in the Seven Systems they were able to help advance some of the simpler systems found on the basic SSM.

There are still many mysteries surrounding the Seven Systems Cluster and the technology it's inhabitants seemingly abandoned but for now the EHG is occupied in controlling the newly formed federation and expanding it's exploration efforts.

So a "Seven Systems Machine" is a giant, walking, a$$-kicking robot piloted by Humans or Eldan. The technology is understood only to the point of use and any "upgrades" are really just retrofits ofan inferior tech level that have been applied to the machine in order to perform a given task.

All SSM will weigh roughly the same. Players will be able to "upgrade" or "retrofit" their SSM with extra "actuators" or "engines" that will either increase speed or increase lifting capacity (i.e. a 200N Acutator Retrofit will allow the player to allocate up to 50 points to either speed or strength but not both). Of course the more "strength" a machine has the more weapony it can carry in it's retrofit Weapon Frame (think an exoskelton for a big robot).

The actual game mechanics won't change much from the "quickset" rules I posted last week but the "construction" mechanics come down to essentially what size engine, where those engine points are allocated and the weapons load out for each Weapons Frame.

So a quick breakdown of what an SSM (SSM were previously known as MAIS) can do:
- It can fly
- It can Walk/Run
- It is extremely fast and reacts (in terms of articulated movement) like a naked human
- It can carry a BUNCH of weight
- It is capable of interstellar travel on its own
- The technology used to create these things is only understood to a level of implemntation and any "design" changes are simply retrofits of an inferior tech level
- They are nearly impervious to all conventional weaponry but are susceptable to multiple nuke attaacks and obviously other SSM and SSM weapon systems.
- The pilot-machine interface is such that the machine literally bonds to each individual pilot makeing swapping machines or pilots hard, but not impossible

[Sydney Freedberg]

The Seven Systems Legacy

Now this is pretty darn cool.

...Eldan actually started out life as the Kluarks.

But, err, you might want to work on this name -- sounds kinds ... duck-like.....

The strange thing was that even though they were obviously machines of war no weapon systems could be found save a strange assortment of large hand-to-hand weapons.... The only draw back to the machines was the lack of any ranged weaponry. Apparently the machines were designed for melee combat and as such no ranged weapons, or designs, could be found.

This you might have some work to justify. It's not impossible -- DUNE did it with forcefields that rendered ranged weapons ineffective, for example. You just need to take a stab at it.

Essentially it boiled down to the only thing that could stop an SSM was another SSM as the powersource required for powering the weapons systems were only reproducable via reproducing the machines themselves.

Again, this takes some justifying -- couldn't people build an SSM and then cannibalize it for the power source which they then put in something else?

these factories could reproduce themselves via the use of self produced, "Self Emanating Energized Deployment" – or SEED pods. A SEED pod could be dropped in a non populated area and within a month the pod would build a fully functional factory without no outside intervention.....The machines used what was dubbed "Black Thyron;" a super dense, super strong form of what could only be described as "steel" that was native to the Seven Systems Cluster...

You're heading for the "unobtinium" route here, when it's hard to imagine ANY inorganic material that's truly rare in a galaxy of millions of stars. May I suggest an alternative? Make the manufacturing process and the mechs themselves semi-biological: they are GROWN, not made. (They aren't necessarily wet and squishy like human beings; they can still be metallic, just metal that's kind of alive). That fits with your idea of self-replicating factories and with a semi-telepathic mech-pilot bond. It also solves in one stroke both why you can't replicate/reverse engineer/cannibalize the power-source -- it's the heart of a living system and doesn't function on its own -- and why the Black Thyron is rare -- it only "grows" where the Ancient Mysterious Aliens seeded it.

All SSM will weigh roughly the same

The loud shattering sound you just heard was you breaking the chains of BattleTech -- with this one, simple change. Bravo. And it turns tactics from a tonnage game (my mech is bigger than your mech) to something more nuanced because the baseline is more equal, like fighter pilots dogfighting or knights jousting.

With that change and the background as written, in fact, what you've done (consciously or not) is gone back beyond BattleTech to the Japanese anime that inspired it -- and it's always better to imitate the original rather than imitate an imitation. (Imitating an imitation is arguably the definition of a "heartbreaker"). The rough equality among mechs, pilots being more decisive than the design of their machines, the pilot-mech empathetic bond, the alien empires, the lost technologies of mysterious ancients, even the name "Seven Systems Legacy" (which is redolent of an anime called "Five Star Stories")  -- are all very Japanese animation. There's a rich feel here I quite like.

[greedo1379]

This is way cooler than what you had before.  Although it could just be that your presentation is so much better (its all organized and whatnot).

Black Thyron - Steel is a very clearly defined substance.  Its iron and carbon and the percentages of carbon are set (its been a while since my materials classes but I think it was something like from 0.9% to 7% or something).  You shouldn't called Black Thyron "some sort of steel".  You should just call it a metal.

Although really, I especially like the idea of making the mechs semi organic.  I think this would also be a cool twist on the classic.  Think of your mech mechanics too- they'd be like doctors (which to me is a cool concept as well)

I really like this background so far.

[pilot602]

But, err, you might want to work on this name -- sounds kinds ... duck-like.....

Heh, yeah it's a place holder. Butthanks for being nice about it.

This you might have some work to justify. It's not impossible -- DUNE did it with forcefields that rendered ranged weapons ineffective, for example. You just need to take a stab at it.

It does get justified ... just a little later. Humans/Eldan "retrofit" ranged weapon systems to meet their needs but as of yet the true purpose of the SSM isn't known/discovered. Eventually it will be learned that the SSM were built to hunt and kill the Giants. Think, for an idea of what the Giants mean to the universe, the Gouhld in Stargate (false gods).

Again, this takes some justifying -- couldn't people build an SSM and then cannibalize it for the power source which they then put in something else?

What this was supposed to mean is that the SSM and it's powersource are really one item. Humans, and eventaully the Eldan, don't know how to seperate the two. In other words they know how to get these factories up an running, get these automated facilities to build the SSMs, know how to turn on the SSMs but as far as modifying much of the basic designs they're pretty clueless.

when it's hard to imagine ANY inorganic material that's truly rare in a galaxy of millions of stars.

It's not so much that the occurance of the material is rare (although I know I wrote that it was ... D'oh) its that the technolgy needed to find and mine the stuff is rare thus making obtaining the stuff hard and inturn it's availability is rare (at this point in the storyline).

Make the manufacturing process and the mechs themselves semi-biological: they are GROWN, not made. (They aren't necessarily wet and squishy like human beings; they can still be metallic, just metal that's kind of alive). That fits with your idea of self-replicating factories and with a semi-telepathic mech-pilot bond. It also solves in one stroke both why you can't replicate/reverse engineer/cannibalize the power-source -- it's the heart of a living system and doesn't function on its own -- and why the Black Thyron is rare -- it only "grows" where the Ancient Mysterious Aliens seeded it.

I've thought about the "biological" angle but I was kind of trying to stay away from it because of Neon Genesis. Although, it would "play into" the idea of the Giants which are themselves a bio-tech mix. I might play with that a little more. The folks that buil the civilization of the Seven Systems caught on to what the giants were and they themselves exploited a technology that imitated that of the Giants in order to hunt the Giants.

which is redolent of an anime called "Five Star Stories"

And "Seven Samaurai" ... ;)

The rough equality among mechs, pilots being more decisive than the design of their machines, the pilot-mech empathetic bond, the alien empires, the lost technologies of mysterious ancients, even the name "Seven Systems Legacy" (which is redolent of an anime called "Five Star Stories") -- are all very Japanese animation. There's a rich feel here I quite like.

Thanks.

This is way cooler than what you had before. Although it could just be that your presentation is so much better (its all organized and whatnot).

Thanks ... probably a little of both.

Although really, I especially like the idea of making the mechs semi organic. I think this would also be a cool twist on the classic. Think of your mech mechanics too- they'd be like doctors (which to me is a cool concept as well)

Yeah like I said earlier I was kind of avoiding it because of Neon Genesis:Evangelion, but it would fit with where I want to go with the Giants. I think I might write up a draft playing with the "living ship" idea (ala Far Scape).

[dalek_of_god]

Regarding Black Thyron, I'm not a big fan of hand-waving unobtanium that derives from natural sources. Finding and mining a material is fairly straightforward. Making one can get exceedinly difficult. For that reasone, some form of synthesized material usually seems more believable to me.

In that regard, and since I sometimes excel at spouting nonsense, I thought I might propose a conjecture:

Black Thyron is an unusual iron-carbon alloy. Long fullerene filaments are woven through a ferrous matrix in a tangled, fractal web that manages to be simultaneously ordered and chaotic. The carbon forms a single giant molecule supported in three dimensions by a metallic framework. Mixed in with the iron are various other metals that help prevent corrosion, and at least one exotic element. In the periodic table, most elements heavier than Actinium are radioactive and decay into more stable elements relativelly rapidly. Extremely heavy elements decay in a matter of seconds - except for a small "island of stability", where certain heavy elements have useful half-lives. Black Thyron contains one of these elements, a stable isotope of element 114 - ununquadium. While there are some stockpiles of this material in the Seven Systems Cluster, it does not occur naturally anywhere. The factories can manufacture Black Thyron, but they are not equipped to synthesize this metal. SEEDer factories substitute unstable transuranic elements. The resulting material degrades rapidly as the unstable elements decay.

I can ramble like this for a long, long time. It's relatively believable from a materials science point of view, plus I got in the words fullerene, fractal and ununquadium. Science can be so cool. Plus, as an iron-carbon alloy "some sort of steel" is basically accurate. The only real handwaving is that "stable" isotopes of unuquadium probably only last a few days, and there is no conceivable way they could enhance the durability of a material ... other than that, though ... Well it's just a thought I had.

As an aside, I'm not sure if this is really an acceptable practice (I've posted conjecture based on other ideas to this forum before), but sometimes I get a brainwave. Since it isn't based on my own ideas I can't really use it for myself, but I'd hate for it to go to waste. So I end up throwing it out there. Use it as-is, or modify it or ignore it completely ...