Greek Mythology RPG: Best mechanics to convey concept?

[MattyHelms]

I've finally decided to take the plunge into self-publishing some games as PDF files.  The game design that I'm most excited about revolves around Greek mythology, tentatively (and with sparkling originality) titled Dues Ex Machina.

I do have a specific question about what kind of die mechanic might suit the game, but some of the design concepts may need to be outlined first.  I'll try to be concise and stick with only what’s important for action resolution.

I feel games that have dealt with Greek Mythology haven't really captured the soap opera aspects of the gods messing with each other and occasionally using a human pawn or hero to do this.  How does this translate into play?  Dues Ex Machina is played with many GM's and only one player.  Each GM is a god and the sole player is a Hero.  Zeus and Hera are off limits as god choices.  Heroes will be built like standard RPG characters.

The gods are ranked according to spheres of control.  All nouns in the game - people, places, and things, including Heroes - will be defined just like the Greeks saw the world - through the lens of the four elements and what those say about people.  Additionally, Heroes and some nouns will have god-given talents and flaws - special abilities that grant bonuses or penalties.

At the start of each game session, Zeus' whim is declared, sending the Hero on a mission.  These will probably be randomly-determined mission types and details, which will raise some spheres of control and lower others depending if the quest succeeds or not.  Whether or not Hera is in accordance with Zeus is also randomly determined at this time.  The GM-played gods’ spheres will show if they help or hinder the Hero on his Zeus-ordained quest.

So the GM's, all gods, start playing out the adventure to the Hero - throwing out obstacles or aids.  Those who oppose Zeus' mission cannot aid or hinder the Hero directly, but can affect other Nouns surrounding the hero.  I figure that some sort of roll based on the god’s sphere taking into account the elements of the noun he is trying to effect will work here.  Additionally Hera can be called upon for aid, depending on her disposition.  The Hero resolves conflicts in standard RPG fashion, using his element scores and any god-given talents in a contest against the opposition's elements.

I want to keep statistics simple and limit them to the four elements for nouns.  God-given talents and the gods' spheres should be open-ended and loosely defined.  I just want nouns to have the basic elements, since the game will probably contain a large list of nouns to use in adventure generation and during adventures.

Now, I finally come to the mechanic question.  I was originally thinking of a percentile system, just ‘cause they’re easy to grasp.  Having a straight percentile system feels kind of limited, though, in a game dealing with gods unless I go open-ended.  The potentially huge numbers an open-ended percentile mechanic would give sure do stink to detail out and keep track of during a game, however.

Maybe some opposed dice pool mechanic would fit and facilitate the fast play the game needs?

Thanks in advance for your time and help.

Matt Helms

[MattyHelms]

Sometimes just typing up your concepts helps, as another option occured to me this morning.  Gods don't roll dice to exert their will - that's all accomplished through resource management/ bidding.  The players, though, do roll dice if necessary for the opposition that they pit against the hero.

Thanks,
Matt

[John Kirk]

Matty,

I think you've got an interesting idea here in having the players portray Gods rather than heroes.  With so many GM's, though, I think you'll have to be pretty clear on who has final say in directing the story at any given time.

Have you taken a look at Universalis yet?  If not, I'd highly recommend doing so.  The mechanics of Universalis would probably be a good starting point for what you're wanting to do here.  Universalis is a game without any GM's.  Or, if you look at it from another perspective, all players are GM's.  It is a resource based game that allows players to spend "coins" for control over the storyline.  So, no single player can direct the plot at the expense of the other players.  Everyone contributes his own share of ideas in a well-balanced way.

[MattyHelms]

Matty,

I think you've got an interesting idea here in having the players portray Gods rather than heroes.  With so many GM's, though, I think you'll have to be pretty clear on who has final say in directing the story at any given time.

Have you taken a look at Universalis yet?  If not, I'd highly recommend doing so.  The mechanics of Universalis would probably be a good starting point for what you're wanting to do here.  Universalis is a game without any GM's.  Or, if you look at it from another perspective, all players are GM's.  It is a resource based game that allows players to spend "coins" for control over the storyline.  So, no single player can direct the plot at the expense of the other players.  Everyone contributes his own share of ideas in a well-balanced way.

Thanks, John!  I'm pretty excited about the game, but do realize the potential for the interaction between the gods to get out of hand.  I'm hoping the mechanics for Zues' and Hera's influence will help with that, but I'm sure I'll need some solid resoltion rules in place.

My copy of Universalis showed up this past Wednesday, so I'm sure it'll be an inspiration.  I've actually been mulling over the best approach for my game for a few years now (!) and recently decided that resource management would work the best for the god interaction.  I'm sure that Universalis will be particularly enlightning for me.

In fact, getting Universalis, Donjon, and kill puppies for satan in the same week were what finally gotten me motivated to publish my game.

I'm settling on resource management for the god interaction, which then translates down into dice pool-based resolution between their Nouns and the Hero.

My next step is to get enough written up to playtest with my regular game group.  I'll try not to bug all of you until I have a public playtest file from those sessions.

Thanks,
Matt

[epweissengruber]

If you want to explore the tragic side of heroism, I would suggest Sorcerer, with the tragic flaw or curse being some kind of daiamon.  Humanity would be defined as capable of maintaining a role in Greek society (father/mother, ruler, respectful of ALL the gods,).

Ajax -- his berserk rage makes him a potent warrior but he ends up killing his kids.

Achilles -- his wrath is effective, but it ends up bringing woe to the Greeks

Oedipus -- his cleverness wins him power but his arrogance leads him to ruin.

Odysseus -- well, he has a close connection to Athena.  Perhaps those who are "blessed" by a God must also deal with the trouble they create.


Plus: Hero Wars is my default answer for everything.

[Doctor Xero]

I've finally decided to take the plunge into self-publishing some games as PDF files.  The game design that I'm most excited about revolves around Greek mythology, tentatively (and with sparkling originality) titled Dues Ex Machina.

I do have a specific question about what kind of die mechanic might suit the game, but some of the design concepts may need to be outlined first.  I'll try to be concise and stick with only what?s important for action resolution.

You might want to have each player playing both a god and a human, with no game master at all.

Imagine each player jockeying with each other player, trying to interfere with the lives of other players' characters for good or ill, while each character jockeys with each other character while trying to survive the machinations of their player-gods.  While characters follow game mechanics and die rolls, players bid for control within their sphere (because, as Einstein pointed out, God doesn't roll dice < grin >).

Doctor Xero

[MattyHelms]

If you want to explore the tragic side of heroism, I would suggest Sorcerer, with the tragic flaw or curse being some kind of daiamon.  Humanity would be defined as capable of maintaining a role in Greek society (father/mother, ruler, respectful of ALL the gods,).

Ajax -- his berserk rage makes him a potent warrior but he ends up killing his kids.

Achilles -- his wrath is effective, but it ends up bringing woe to the Greeks

Oedipus -- his cleverness wins him power but his arrogance leads him to ruin.

Odysseus -- well, he has a close connection to Athena.  Perhaps those who are "blessed" by a God must also deal with the trouble they create.


Plus: Hero Wars is my default answer for everything.

I do love me some Sorcerer, but I am actually going for a lighter more adventerous tone for the game.

Thanks,
Matt

[MattyHelms]

I've finally decided to take the plunge into self-publishing some games as PDF files.  The game design that I'm most excited about revolves around Greek mythology, tentatively (and with sparkling originality) titled Dues Ex Machina.

I do have a specific question about what kind of die mechanic might suit the game, but some of the design concepts may need to be outlined first.  I'll try to be concise and stick with only what?s important for action resolution.

You might want to have each player playing both a god and a human, with no game master at all.

Imagine each player jockeying with each other player, trying to interfere with the lives of other players' characters for good or ill, while each character jockeys with each other character while trying to survive the machinations of their player-gods.  While characters follow game mechanics and die rolls, players bid for control within their sphere (because, as Einstein pointed out, God doesn't roll dice < grin >).

Doctor Xero

Interesting suggestion.  I may have to try it out in one of my playtests.  I am afraid of all the interactions getting too complicated and slowing down play, but this may be a cool enough idea to work - gods and their pet champions.

-Matt

EDIT - on second thought, this is very freakin' cool.