GM-less games

[Moah]

Hi,

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this question, hopefully I am not breaching any etiquette.

I've been wondering if any of you have taken the narrativist next step: GM less games. Or, more exactly, participative GMing by all players present. Each brings his own character, and the story unfolds, led by one player then the next, etc.

The more I read about narrativism, the more it seems to me that this is what it points at.

Anyone has an experience? Has tried? Does any published game promote this?

Thanks,

[TonyLB]

I have done it, but I think you may be mistaken in saying that it's indicated by narrativism.

Narrativism is a Creative Agenda.  It is something that people agree they want to achieve.

Authority-Light is a play style.  It may, or may not, be suited to fulfilling a Narrativist Creative Agenda in your individual group.

In my experience, GM-less play tends to lead more toward a Simulationist agenda than Narrativist.  People felt much more comfortable describing the world than they did portraying heavy interactions with theme.  The former was considered "safe and polite", while the latter was construed as having the risk of stepping on peoples toes.

But like I said, I think that's going to vary from group to group.

[Ben O'Neal]

GM-Less games are nothing new. AFAIK, they are simply not very well-known. But as TonyLB pointed out, GM-Less has nothing to do with narrativism. In fact, I'm making a gamist game that is completely GM-Less right now. It's called Scarlet Wake and you can check it out in the Indie RPGs forum.

-Ben

[TonyLB]

People here could probably make some really good suggestions on how to structure a GM-less game to aid a Narrativist CA, though.

Sadly, at the moment, I've got nothing on that subject myself.  How embarassing.

[Jonathan Walton]

There are a few published GM-less games or systems.

The first I encountered (and maybe the first ever, I don't know), was Ian Millington's Ergo, which was basically a step-by-step how-to guide for one kind of GM-less play.  I can't find it anywhere just now though.  I think I have the file still, though, so email me if you can't find it.

The most famous, at least here on the Forge, is Universalis.

One less famous, but very unique one, is Rune, where the players take turns in a kind of GM-like role, and actually compete against the other players, even as the GM.

All three of these are definitely worth a look.  There's been some concerns, since the publishing of Universalis, that most GM-less games use a very "male/yang"-style of building consensus, forcing people to compete to get their ideas into play, which is not necessarily the best way of making sure all voices are heard.  You can either say "tough luck" to that, or try to come up with something that's more encouraging.  I think recent designers have taken both routes.

[Bob McNamee]

A related thread you may want to look at is...(if you haven't already seen it)
"Gmless gaming techniques"
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9794&highlight=gmful

There's a good link at the start of that thread as well
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9794&highlight=gmful.
..look down to Emily Care's post for ideas on how different games spread out narration rights.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I also want to emphasize Emily's fundamental point, which is that such play is better understood as GM-ful across all the people involved rather than GM-less in any way.

I think that point ranks among the most important ever made at the Forge.

Best,
Ron

[sirogit]

I think there's several reasons why distrribuited-GM games support any one of the CAs.

Gamist - Clearest social contract, you know who's competiting against whom, so you know what partiality your actions are supposed to have.

Simulationist - Least chance of stepping on other's toes.

Narrativists - Narrativism calls for players having strong input, and by removing a singular GM it gives them more input.

I wouldn't say distribuited-power-Gming is the next step in Narrativism, because some narrativists concepts just call out for the need of an impartial arbiter or singular voice, among other things. It is a pretty intereasting developing field, though.

[M. J. Young]

The narrator part (the equivalent of a game master) is optional in Legends of Alyria, recommended more as a way of making the game work with players new to it. I have not tried it without a referee, and don't know if anyone actually has.

--M. J. Young