[D&D] I need proactive protagonists...

[Bankuei]

Hi Mark,

I think that's wonderful advice for playing a style we call Illusionism.  It may also be off mark for what Andrew is asking for.

That particular style of play is great for a coherent set of events, but also tends to get players into a reactionary mode, where they're constantly looking for prodding and cues from the GM... which is exactly what what Andrew is NOT enjoying about his current game.

Chris

[MarktheAnimator]

"off mark"...hehe :)

hmmm..

Well, its only advice.

The trick is, how to run a scripted story while still allowing the players total freedom of action?

hmmm..

Perhaps you could just introduce an NPC and have him ask them what they want to do?

This is sort of like prompting them to set their character goals...

btw, how many styles are there?  I'd love to read about them.  Is it part of the GNS theory?

[Bankuei]

Hi Mark,

I think the point being brought up is that Andrew isn't running with a prescripted plot.  You'll notice that many of the older(and a few of the newer) D&D modules had no plot whatsoever.  You had a world with stuff going on for folks to explore and do things, like take sides in a conflict, get into trouble, look for riches, etc.  

The key point for those modules was that the players were supposed to figure out what they were interested in and wander over and check it out.  It was not in the GM's hands to embroil the player characters into things, but it was up to them.

In regards to the fact that these are new players, I find giving them overarcing goals gives them momentum in play, but it hinges on them being aware that "stuff happens" is a responsibility of the entire group, not just the GM.

Chris

[Callan S.]

I think you just need to provoke imagination and offer a reward for proactiveness.

Eg: Describe everything, with many interesting things as well as one obvious hook (some monsters to fight).

Then say 'Now, the monsters would seem a good choice, but there's something else you could do that'd be far more effective and whoever figures it out gets 100XP (or whatever amount).'

The trick is you have absolutely nothing else figured out, but when/if they think of something you'll say 'YES, thats' IT! 100XP for you!' and then you'll run with it.

And as said by another poster, go even with stupid stuff they suggest (without punishing it for its stupidness). The idea of their being proactive is that it isn't something you yourself would go for...its what they go for.

[clehrich]

As things move along, I think one of the most important things is going to be rewards, by which I really mean social rewards.  You say your players are new to gaming, right?  OK, so as yet they don't know entirely what there is to like about gaming, or where the fun lies for them.  They also don't know if they're "doing it right."

The one thing you want, apparently, is for them to take the initiative and go out and do things.  Fine.  So using any or all the various techniques mentioned, you're going to provoke them to try things.  Right?

Now here's the trick: whatever they do, however tentatively, seize on it and have it be a cool, clever thing.  Let them run with it.  You may think it's stupid, but you mustn't let on.  If they decide to parlay with the orcs, for example, forget any notions that orcs don't parlay, or don't speak the language, or whatever; make the parlay happen, and make it interesting.  Let them get out of the situation by talking their way out.

This is especially true when and if someone comes up with something you haven't thought of at all.  Let the players see that you are a little thrown; you want them to feel that they have challenged you, and that this isn't entirely a one-way street.  And make damn sure that, having been gob-smacked, you let the wacky idea be useful.

What you're doing here is saying, through actions rather than words, "Guys, if you come up with something and go out and act on it, I will not punish you, and the game will be more fun than if you just wait for me to throw stuff at you."  The more you do this, and the more effectively, the more they will strain their brains to come up with clever plans and be proactive.  Furthermore, they will start to compete with each other, in a friendly sense, about who can come up with the coolest thing.  Once you get there, your problems are pretty much solved.

[Itse]

This is a common problem, which I have only ever seen truly succesfully solved in two ways:

1) a new, proactive character

Ever notice that in every adventure movie there's always the annoying sidekick who gets himself in trouble? You need that character. Even one such character in a group will usually do wonders to the whole. And I do mean character. Most characters, as most people, are pretty passive. You need a character who always wants to know what's behind doors number one AND two, who always goes to check out what's that noise, and who wants to try and find out who those guys were, even if they have absolutely no clues.

Never underestimate what an effect a change of character can have on the way a player plays.

2) A new, proactive player

This is almost as good, but usually not as, since this tend to lead to a situation where the active player leads and the others follow. This is bad in itself, but doesn't suit everybody.

3) Take it up with the players.

Now, this could lead to either 1 or 2 happening. It could mean that some players start playing their characters in a more proactive way, or it could mean that maybe one of them will state that he'd like a new character. It could also mean that the players will change the way they play those characters they already have, but honestly, it's very unlikely. Same players, same characters, same system, same gameworld, same GM... I don't see how that will add up to a different way of gameplay.

Other people here have mostly tried to suggest that it's something that you are doing. That might be it, but I've yet to one single case where a GM can change the way he plays in a way which truly changes the way the game flows. This is quite natural really. You can't change the world, you can't change yourself, and you can't change the rules, assuming that you want to keep playing the same game.

In most cases, changing a character or adding a very active player is the fastest, easiest and least painful way to activate the group. Also, as I've said before, it's the only way I've yet to see that works.

Bottom line: you can't just change the way you play. You have to change something in that affects it.