How to have 'Merits' and 'Flaws' without being stale?

[Victor Gijsbers]

I have not yet read the details of your system, but I believe you have to draw coloured tokens from a bag, where a certain colour means a success. Perhaps, if you like to have 'merits' and 'flaws' with roleplaying potential, you could do something akin to The Pool? Make people write down some trait ('merits', 'flaws', who cares) and have them distribute a few points among them Whenever they draw from the bag in a situation in which that trait is relevant and has been roleplayed as such, they get to draw an additional number of tokens depending on the number of points they've put into the trait. So I could take "black magic +1" or "one-armed +2", and have a bonus any time I brought it into play. But this system probably works best if the reward for success is narrative power, and as I haven't read YGAD yet I'm not sure if that's the case.


You wrote - this is going off-topic, excuse me: "Although people aren't created equal in real life, anyway. It's more that they're created with equal 'inalienable' (really?) rights."

Inalienable rights are a fiction, an incredibly useful rhetorical device which ought to be applauded; it is also a case of an undefendable philosophical position. So: no, not really, but don't let the word get out.


Madelf wrote: "Some games have randomized flaws. I can't think of specific ones off the top of my head, but I've seen ones where you roll against a chart of "quirks" that give you some odd foible for your character, or similar things that I assume are intended to trigger that creativity effect."

One of them is Wuthering Heights, which also shows the kind of game in which such a system can work. I wouldn't recommend it for general use, no.

[Emily Care]

From the playtest version of YGAD:

Drawing
You draw a number of tiles equal to 5, plus the amount of careers and hobbies that support the action you want to take. Eugene, for instance, would draw 8 or 9 tiles for acrobatics or riding-related actions, 6 tiles for lockpicking, 6 or 7 tiles for swordfighting, and maybe even a whopping 10 tiles for knife-throwing, if that was his specialty for all of his careers (as well as it is his hobby). Some birth benefits and hindrances may also add or reduce the number of tiles drawn.

I take it to be that the merits/flaws you're talking about are the birth/life merit's hindrances, correct?  Well, with respect to the mechanics described above, the effect of having the M/F's would simply give people a greater diversity of tile draw #s.  And if they can gain or lose them over time it could make the characters dynamic over time.  Those seem like two good reasons to include them.  Unless their inclusion ends up having little effect (cancel eachother out often or something) or muddies the character vision with too many traits.

What your traits are doing as written is establishing the difficulty level of accomplishing any given task.  Is there any other effect you might like them to have? Have impact on the kinds of outcomes possible for example, by influencing what kind of tiles are included in the bag for a given draw?

I like your game concept. Keep with it!

yrs,
Emily Care

[Tobias]

Wow. Take a day off (zoo, beach, friends, sister) and things really start happening.

Thanks for your responses, everyone.

Tomorrow (between motorcycle lessons and a party) is 'buckling-down' day. I'll hopefully be able to show everyone what the result is.

I've been trying to tie the central concepts from the charsheet (Value, Goal, Careers, Contact) more to the central premise and to the Bag. It occurs to me that the careers are at the one hand neccesary for the basic feel I want, but on the other hand tie into the Role a character is choosing to play in society as well (capitalized because it might become a descriptor on the character sheet).

I thought of what Victor mentioned as well - why not just have something as a descriptor, which, when relevant for the situation and used appropriately in the intended action description, gives you a bonus tile to draw? Well, one reason is that there would be no 'flaws' any more - which seems a shame, in a simmish way, but might promote more interesting narration.

Lots of people have tuned in to YGAD by now - for which I'd like to thank all of you. Now it's up to me get that next step out there. Thanks for the pressure - let's see what my brain does with it.

[Tobias]

Well, life didn't fully co-operate this weekend (at least, as far as YGAD-design goes). Did get a second session in (will be in Actual Play in a few moments), but only got one hour to think about mechanics.

On the Merits and Flaws thing, I've decided to incorporate something like them as follows:

1. Every character may have a number of 'descriptors' equal to 2+X, where X is the number of careers. (This replaces Birth and Life M/F).

2. Every descriptor is an outspoken element of the character. This may be Strong, one-armed, agoraphobic, whatever.

3. Every descriptor can be used both for good and for bad by the character. If the character incorporates a description of why, in the current action, the descriptor is a relevant aid, he gets one bonus tile to draw (shoving someone around for strong, getting sympathy while begging for one-armed). If he describes the descriptor as a hindrance, he gets minus one tile to draw, but gets automatic narration rights over the outcome of the action (still bound by the number of successes).

4. Every descriptor may also be used by the storykeeper in actions by opposing NPCs. This may also modify the amount of tiles opponents draw.

This will hopefully make every descriptor a double-edged sword. Positive descriptors will often aid the character (but not always), negative descriptors will give the player narration power a bit more.

edit: and I will have to think of a more catchy name than 'descriptor'.

[Vaxalon]

edit: and I will have to think of a more catchy name than 'descriptor'.

Especially since the word means essentially the same thing in "Story Engine".

Of course, most of the synonyms are already used too... Attribute, Trait, etc.

[Tobias]

There's another reason for you... but thanks for mentioning it. Does Story Engine have some of the same mechanics behind the word as well (you imply as much, but there may yet be differences).

I'm amused by the amount of parallels I encounter in other games that are designed (or referenced) around here. A matter of trying to describe elements that are missing from the popular games, or a matter of common heritage causing similar solutions? (In other words, are we inspired by something that's lacking, or by things we've encountered?)

[Jasper]

I'm curious about the interaction between the player choosing to use a descriptor, and a player.  Who declares first?  If a fight's coming up, and both the player and the GM were thinking of using the character's "strongarm," which way does it go?  Does the player draw an extra tile, or does his opponent draw one tile fewer (since the GM calling on a descriptor can only affect the tiles enemies draw)?  Also, what happens if the GM was thinking of using a trait in a negative way, to give an enemy extra tiles ("you're 'strong but slow' trait allows the little imp to run between your legs and attack you...") but the player also wants to use it, but for a positive purpose ("My 'strong but slow' allows me to pummel the enemy really hard")?  In this case, I guess you could just allow an extra tile for each party, but there are various other combinations you might need to consider.

[Tobias]

Jasper,

Good point - this is obviously an area that needs to be fleshed out. I'm leaning to the 'award both of them a bonus' in that case, since then the desciptor will feel more present.

What could be even more interesting is: what if the player declares it as a negative, and so does the GM?

A nice clean set of rules is needed here.

[Vaxalon]

Does Story Engine have some of the same mechanics behind the word as well (you imply as much, but there may yet be differences).

It seems similar.