New Updates to the REALMS OF ADVENTURING site

[kevin_presley]

Hello all!

The forge has given me some wonderful(if not sometimes sturn) advice about the role playing genre. I would love to continue getting this advice, as  this is one of the best forums around in which to get constructive criticism.
 I have added our game's combat system to the site. Any feed back or discussion would be welcomed. Also, I have another request. I have recieved several posts remarking that ROA is a homebrew of D&D. I may just be seeing the forest for the trees, but I cannot for the life of me see any similarities other than the fact that it is a fantasy role playing game set in a medievil world. If anyone out there does see any similar traits, please post them for me, as I would love to see and alter anything viewed as a duplicate of D&D.
   thank you,
Kevin Presley
   P.S.
   For those that may be new to our site, forgive the story that is posted, it will be changed very soon.
www.bloodandstone.com

[LordSmerf]

Also, I have another request. I have recieved several posts remarking that ROA is a homebrew of D&D. I may just be seeing the forest for the trees, but I cannot for the life of me see any similarities other than the fact that it is a fantasy role playing game set in a medievil world. If anyone out there does see any similar traits, please post them for me, as I would love to see and alter anything viewed as a duplicate of D&D.

First, just because something is like D&D doesn't mean that you need to change it, however i will go ahead and point out what similarities i see.

1. Initiative.  Roll dice, players act from highest to lowest roll.
2. Armor.  To hit a target roll higher than Armor Class (in your case determined by Armor and Agility)
3. Dodging.  This is clearly not from D&D.
4. Damage.  Each weapon rolls X many dice and adds a bonus, this determines damage.  The difference is that you essentially give a bonus to "Hit Points" through Armor.  So there are some extra things.

I think that it is quite clear that there is a lot of D&D peaking out.  Again, that is not necessarily a bad thing.  In fact it could be a very good thing.  It is important though that you recognize what you have...

Thomas

[kevin_presley]

lord smerf

  My reply to your post is first thank you. My next response is to discuss what you pointed out. by your reasoning, anyone using intiative is like D&D. As far a the over under rolls, in any type of role playing game using dice, there is only two basic choices; high rolls or low rolls. The dodge is something not new, I guarantee, but coupled with our skill system, I hope to at least "warm it up". Weapons in gaming; once again two basic choices; assign fixed damage(which in my humble opinion is unbalanced, suggesting that every hit is max) or do the x damage dice roll(which i DARE SAY the 90% of ALL role playing games use.).
  If this is the only comparison to D&D you can find, there truly is no real similarity. NOW, can we say that R.O.A. is similiar to other games- sure, thats why we are called RPGs.
  I may be wrong, but that is my humble retort to your post,
thank you for reviewing and spending time posting a response
kevin presley

[Valamir]

My reply to your post is first thank you. My next response is to discuss what you pointed out. by your reasoning, anyone using intiative is like D&D.

Hey Kevin.  

I just want to mention that there are dozens of ways to do initiative.  There are also several ways to run fully crunchy combat with no initiative system whatsoever (see Sorcerer, or Pendragon for examples).

There are systems where there are no rolls at all for the bad guys.  The enemy is abstracted out to be a difficulty to the hero's roll, so there is no need for an initiative system.

In other words: Any system where every combatant rolls a die and goes in order *IS* using D&D initiative.  Because there are potentially thousands of OTHER ways to run a combat that don't involve that particular mechanic.

[Chris Goodwin]

Six attributes, roughly similar to those in D&D.  You got yer Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.  

Attributes are randomly rolled

Class and level.  

Classes based on the "classic four" (warrior, thief, wizard, cleric)

As you increase in level, you gain hit points based on random rolls

The "one-hit kill" is effectively D&D's backstabbing

[Mike Holmes]

Kevin, analogy time again.

If I said, "Hey, here's my sandwich. It's not a burger, because the bun's got sesame seeds, there are no pickles, and the beef is angus." What would be your response? Would you try to point out that I must never have tried a ham sandwich?

Try the ham sandwich, Kevin. Here is a list of several hundred free sandwiches:
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/

Mike

[Bankuei]

Hi Kevin,

It may do well for you to:

-Research, digest, and provide more information later, anywhere from a few weeks to a few months.  In the meantime, feel free to check out what everyone else is doing and talking about, ask questions and participate.

-Wait until you have a significant amount of system ready to present, at least a full resolution and reward system, so that folks can give you a solid analysis.  Particular focus on what makes your game different than any other out there will probably be a good idea as well.  Further inquiry at this point is likely to continue to give you the same responses.

-Check out the Publishing Forum.  Be honest about how much money you want to spend, and what you expect to make.  If you want to make a self-sufficient business, it would do well to ask questions, check out some of the older threads, and especially consider if your product is viable, will be viable within the next 3 months, and how much money you can stand to lose.

Chris

[kevin_presley]

I get it!!!

     Before I get into the real subject of this post, I just want to say all your input helping me is greatly appreciated. I have posted, and responded to the posts of mike holmes(I like the sandwich thing) Bankuei, Lord smerf and Valamir so much I dang near feel like we are old chaps! All of the time spend pounding my thick skull with knowledge is appreciated.
      Now,
            I need to do mucho more research in the area of RPGS(check)
            We do have certain game aspects that shadow the D&D system
             (overhaul time) check
             Stop building onto the site until we have the complete system uploaded and ready. gotcha!
              Now, all I have to do is come up with a better mouse trap.

         Thank you guys again, I know that I am one of thousands of people who come here and post, thinking we will be the next sliced bread. I am glad you took the time to give me a hand.
Thanks,
Kevin

[Mike Holmes]

Truth be told, Kevin, you're in a much smaller group than the overall population here would indicate. That is, many of the people registered here don't post at all. Of those who do, only part of that number has any aspirations towards actually making a game (others just come here for the thoughts on RPGs in general). Of those who have aspirations, only some of those ever actually try to make a game. Of those, fewer still actually get to the point where you are at where you actually have something that you can show to someone.

So you've done pretty darn well so far in terms of your dedication to coming up with that better mouse trap. I think that you have what it takes to go the distance in that department - and this is a key trait to being successful. Again, the only thing we think that you need here is exposure to more games, so you can have a real idea whether or not your mousetrap is better than all the others or not.

The very first thing you ought to look at, IMO, is GURPS Lite. It's a free, simplified version of the GURPS system. GURPS is one of the most played systems available, and has been around for a very long time in one version or another (dating back to TFT in 1979). I'm not saying that it's a good game, or that it's not, but that it represents the thrust that perhaps half of the systems in existnce today take. Call it the Stat/Skill paradigm, as opposed to the D&D Class/Level paradigm.

Again, this is not a state of the art game, but it will give you an idea right off of how much varience there is in games that are widely played (to say nothing of the more radical designs that exist).

Mike

[Valamir]

Hey Kevin, I'm glad we could be of assistance.

There are tens of thousands of gamers out there with "they're great new game" sitting in notebooks or on a hard drive incomplete somewhere.  Few of them are ever seen by anyone else, and fewer yet are seen by anyone not part of the immediate gamer group.

So you are already way ahead in that department.


As a final note, there is nothing inherently wrong with design decisions that are similiar to the way D&D does things...as long as those decisions were made on purpose with full knowledge of the other options available because the designer thought that system best captured what they wanted.

So our advice isn't "never design a game that borrows from D&D" (or any other game for that matter.  Its just "Don't reinvent the wheel unless you're absolutely sure that's what you really want to do".


I look forward to seeing what you come up with after you've dug around a little bit.

[John Harper]

I'm here to pat Kevin on the back, too.

Kevin, you have taken the (sometimes harsh) criticisms of the Forge with such aplomb... I am impressed. Your threads should be archived as a near-perfect model for good forum behavior and a real open-minded attitude about game design and the discussion of it.

I wish you the best of luck as you continue to work on your project.

[Akamaru]

This is offtopic and totally out-of-place but I can't help but say that if I was a moderator here, I'd have permanently banned kevin after reading his first three posts here. Irritating waste of time and forum space.

[theltemes]

This is offtopic and totally out-of-place but I can't help but say that if I was a moderator here, I'd have permanently banned kevin after reading his first three posts here. Irritating waste of time and forum space.

The forums should be a place of open discussion. Just because someone has a narrow viewpoint that doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean they should be banned. It's about game designers (or wannabees like me) educating each other about their own discoveries and/or experiences. Kevin's stubbornness should be encouraged, not discouraged. It's stubbornness that can make the difference between a game seeing print and one condemned to the ash-heap. And if you don't like what he has to say - move on to the next forum topic. I'm impressed with his attitude - no whiny diatribes or ad hominem attacks on his critics. Just a thought.

[Akamaru]

I still think there's something seriously wrong when a person fails to play by the most basic rules of messageboard behaviour. Shouting out loud in caps-lock is one of them. Add to that the many typos and the huge hype about his revolutionary new RPG when his system is yet another runequest/d&d copy and it just makes me feel that the person behind the posts doesn't really put much thought or value on what he's doing.

Of course I'm not forced to read it and it isn't hard to just skip one little thread, but I fear things will change for the worse if moderators don't nudge people a little. And in my opinion Kevin needs some nudging.

Anyway, nuff said about this. I prolly shoulda kept quiet, but the caps were just too much for me.

[Valamir]

Aka, you are beyond out of line.

There has been no one talking in caps lock on this thread.  No one gets banned here, and you are not a moderator.

Kevin's posts are not only not out of line, but they are at the heart of what the Forge is about.  This is the Indie Game Design forum and Kevin is a prospective publisher come to get advice about potentially publishing his game.  Whether or not his game is a potential fantasy heartbreaker is beside the point and is ground already well gone over.

I am not a moderator, but I am going to put on my "been here since the beginning" hat and say quite sternly:  If ever you feel the need to preface a post with "This is off topic and totally out of place" then go with that instinct and do not post it.

I sincerely hope no one feels the need to reply further to this unfortuneate tangent.