Forge booth at Gen Con SoCal?

[Tav_Behemoth]

Seems like it's way too soon to start thinking about this, but are there plans to do a Forge co-op booth at Gen Con SoCal?

The Game Publishers Association is asking for people to buy into their co-op booth by August 13th. Behemoth3 has committed to going to both domestic Gen Cons this year, and I'd sure love to do Europe next year. Any other Forgers planning to go to Anaheim?

[daMoose_Neo]

Is there going to be a Forge booth there?
If so and were organized according to the Indy system I'd gladly buy in at the $200 Level if someone would run some of my stuff for me. Couldn't make it myself but would supply everything and chip in on the higher level - even Primary Sponsor if needed/desired- to help out. Just need a monkey who would be my dedicated minion >: )

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I probably won't be attending GenCon SoCal, but I think it would be good to have a Forge booth there. I think the primary sponsors ought to be people who've been through the process at GenCon at least once. After that, it's all on them to carry out the various organizing.

Best,
Ron

[Tav_Behemoth]

If Indy works out well for us, Behemoth3 might be ready to become a primary sponsor for SoCal.

The deadline for the GPA booth has been extended until September 15th (still at the early priority rate, thanks to Peter), so that's another option for GPA members (and some extra time to decide!).

[Lxndr]

I've already got plans for going to GenCon SoCal, and after the booth experience at GenCon Indy, I'd be (warily) interested in pitching in for a booth, though most likely a smaller one than the Indy one.  Now that Indy is over, I'd like to revive this thread to see what sort of options people might be thinking about.

What's the Game Publisher's Association booth?

[Tav_Behemoth]

The GPA is a good & inexpensive set of resources for publishers: http://www.thegpa.org/

They do a co-op booth for members that has shared tables and a showcase buy-in for people who won't be at the con but want their products represented.

Behemoth3 is, despite our earlier enthusiasm for SoCal, currently reconsidering whether we'll go in person (if not, the GPA showcase might be good for us). I think it's not necessarily a wise investment, but Nat's mom has (for reasons unknown) offered to hand-sew us a plush stirge if we go. I'll keep y'all updated!

[Lxndr]

GenCon SoCal is a good excuse for me to "visit my family" while still doing things I'd enjoy doing.  So I'm gonna go as a customer at the very least.  Plus it's, like, REALLY close to Phoenix.  Since that's a given, it's probably good to at least consider going as a distributor (at least for me).  I totally understand Behemoth3, a NYC-based company without the "well, family's there" excuse, to reconsider.  

Some discussion, or perhaps simply pontification:

To get a Standard booth that's 10 x 10, it's $880 (it'd be cheaper but we've missed the Early Priority deadline).  To get a Corner booth that's 10 x 10, it's $985.  It probably would be good to assume some extra for any furniture beyond what GenCon will supply (a table of some sort, some chairs) so, for the sake of discussion, let's start at an even $1000 and work upwards from there.  To get those prices, I'd need to sign paperwork and pay by September 17th, 2004.  That's pretty close.

I would not expect to purchase anything larger than the corner booth, and if I do anything at all, it's most likely a Standard.  I believe the first co-op "Forge Booth" used a 10 x 10 space? - Even if it didn't, any suggestions on how to use the smaller space (and likely less furniture) to advantage would be appreciated, as I feel the approach would likely be different from the "many people, many booths, many demos" approach of the Forge Indy booth.

Including the sales from the No Press Anthology, Twisted Confessions made less than $400 at GenCon Indy.  Not that I'm complaining, but that makes it pretty clear that getting a booth alone likely wouldn't be a good idea - even if I manage to hammer out another product by that time to increase the odds, it's still a five number bet, to use roulette terminology.

So, apart from Behemoth3 (who would obviously be welcome if they decide to join), what other Forge companies might be interested in having a GenCon SoCal presence?  I see two potentials for a "presence" at a theoretical "Forge SoCal" booth manned/led by Twisted Confessions:

1.  Attending, bringing your own games, helping man the booth, etc. in pretty straightforward fashion.  This would probably work out to some sort of "however many people like this we get, we divide the booth cost by that many" kinda philosophy.  

(At minimum, it'd be nice to have one other company in this spot, splitting the base costs of the booth in half, although I do have enough in savings that I could hold up a "SoCal Forge Booth" alone this year could I be convinced of an even chance at making as much as I put into it, which could be fulfilled by people participating in part 2, below.)

-OR-

2.  Sending copies of your games, which I would then advertise and sell, for some portion of profit and/or for some flat fee a la Ron's $100 buy in and/or some other plan, as yet to be determined.  I would happily welcome suggestions at this point on how to work this.  Perhaps the GPA people's booth is already kind of like this - I can't seem to find an actual link to the page that describes their booth.

(Oddly enough, I already got one PM about selling someone else's game if I do the SoCal thing, and reaping the profits in some sort of split.  Ye who sent it, I am indeed interested, and will respond more completely as time permits, as I'm about to collapse into my bed).

-----

Reading over this one last time before I post this, it seems I'm almost implicitly volunteering to be the point man, so to speak, for this venture, especially with Behemoth's reconsidering their position.  Quite ambitious for such a tiny little company, isn't it? I would like to see the tradition of a GenCon SoCal Forge Booth started, and if I'm the one who'll have to do it, well... I'm already talking myself into it.  My poor savings account.

Anyway, I have until September 17th to decide this, which is relatively close, but not so close that I need to scramble around like a chicken with its head cut off quite yet.  I would be happy to hear other's suggestions, or peals of support, or even cries of abuse, if done in constructive fashion.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Alexander, the guy you need to talk to is Luke Crane. It seems to me that a "Forge East" approach is a good starting point.

If I understand correctly, that's more of a traditional "two guys buy the booth" approach, and then they simply sell a ton of the games there as well as their own. But Luke can explain it better than me.

On the other hand, if you want to do the demo-table thing, then bear in mind that you really do need staff. If you do a 10x10 corner, then I suggest at least five people in addition to you and any other primary sponsor.

Just for historical clarity, the first booth I did, in 2001, was Adept Press alone, and it was a startup 10x10 along the back row, facing the service corridor doors. I had a huge staff of exhibitors and a stack of books, and pure enthusiasm gained me wads of money.

The Forge booth started up in 2002, with me and Jason Blair as primary sponsors, using a three-booth linear space. Comments and ideas after that led to getting an endcap for 2003, which is what we stayed with for this past year.

For what you're talking about, and with all the short notice, I strongly suggest keeping it down to a 10x10 corner, and perhaps using two demo tables (if that's the way you want to go). However, this is really short notice! No banner, no cash register, no shelving ...

So really start at ground zero and say, "What can I do with the bare minimum?" and "Is it worth it?"

Best,
Ron

[Lxndr]

Yeah, totally short notice, no doubt about it.  I expect a cash box, and the gratis table/etc. that GenCon SoCal is providing, and... well, that's about it.  It'll be a very 'low budget' Forge Booth.  I do love the idea of demo tables and the like, but I can totally see your point about needing a staff (and the likelihood of having booth monkeys being low).  So, bare minimum (at this point assuming no partnership with Behemoth3 or other publishers):

   * a corner booth at best, and possibly a standard
   * the gencon-supplied free table, 2 chairs, one wastebasket, and identification sign.  no other furniture.
   * Copies of Fastlane, copies of the NPA, and whatever other books or other product I'm able to collect to sell

   The question therefore to be asked is, can I figure out a way to make $880 out of this over the course of four days (it'd be even nicer to make enough to cover hotel stays, flight, badges, etc., but since I'd be doing that as a customer anyway, I only need to justify the additional fees incurred).  Twisted Confessions barely made $400 at Indy, and it'll likely be half that if it's just by itself at GenCon SoCal - at least, my gut suggests that's a good ratio.  Then again, if I'm there all alone I get the WHOLE of the NPA sales, not just a cut.  Even though...

   To make this work, especially alone, I'm going to need a significant source of outside product.  At Indy, we did $11,310 in total business, so I imagine there should be a way to wrangle a tenth of that, even without the advantages of the Indy booth.  Also, this would be the first year of the GCSC Forge Booth, and only the 2nd year of the convention itself.  What I'm wanting is not so much the fully-grown tree that is the Forge Indy booth, but rather to nurture a sapling.

   I've looked into the Forge East posts and am still digesting them... what I want to create will, I hope, be different from what the Forge East became.  Luke's vision was to create a mobile Forge booth (at least, from what I can tell in his Forge East posts) that would move up and down the Atlantic at small cons, a mobile booth that'd inspire other mobile booths, etc.  Go look at the posts, they're explaining it better than me.

   What I'm looking to create and nurture is a single focal point - not a "Forge West" as much as "Forge GenCon SoCal."  Which last year became the third largest gaming convention in the country, and which I'm pretty sure will only grow.  I want to sneak this booth in at ground level, so hopefully next year it, too, will grow along with the convention.  

   Luke cycled through several variations with Forge East, along with more suggestions from other folk.  This ranged from "send 3 books, pay me $21, and you'll get all the profit" to "this one time, I'll sell your books gratis" to "let's split the proceeds of the sales price" and more.  I think the latter most interests me at this moment in time, for this first convention.  Let's formalize this, though keep in mind that discussion is still very open.

----
My modest proposal (eat the babies of papists!):

   For the first "official" Forge West booth, any publisher who wishes to have a spiritual presence can do so.  You will pay ALL shipping charges for your books (including returning unsold copies to you), and I will sell them.  In return, I want 25% of the cover price of each book sold (is this reasonable?  this is totally negotiable, but dividing by four is, well, simple to do in my head and seems comparable to what, say, rpgnow charges for whichever of their rpg-x places sells print books).  At least one book should get to me early enough that I can read it enough to be reasonably conversant.  

   If you can actually make it physically, I'll get you a badge and stuff.  I won't charge 25% of the sales of your games, but will expect you to chip in for the cost of the booth and sundry.  This should be as simple as possible - take cost of booth, divide by # of publishers who make it physically.  If you're wanting to just be a booth-monkey, well, obviously I won't want you chipping in for the booth.  Just your badge.
----

   And now that I'm done rambling, let's see what the rest of you have to say.

[Luke]

Alexander,

Unless you can get committment from a number of people -- ie, money -- that reduces the cost of the con to a reasonable amount -- $100-$200 -- I wouldn't go ahead with this.

It's a lot harder than you think. Even just running a "normal" booth at a con requires a good deal of preparation. Banners, flyers, displays, business cards, post cards are just a few of the little things you need to make a booth feel professional. (They may seem incidental, but such things definitely help spread the word.)

Then there's the con expenses and furniture, plus unforseen headaches like union fees (which I heard about regarding GenCon SoCal last year).

I'm not trying to scare you off, but I want you to be 100% on this. How many local cons have you done and pushed your stuff? Ya gotta build up your skills.

I'm toying with going to GenCon SoCal, myself, but I need to see how the BW Revision goes before I can make any definites.

-L

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Alexander, I have a concrete suggestion: find a full partner to do this with you. Not even Luke does Forge East alone.

To do even the basics of a Forge-type booth, one needs a fellow captain, or at least one.

Best,
Ron