Please Help Me With My Mechanic?

[Frank The Pug]

I'm not a statistician, just an ordinary gamer trying to "create a better game," or at least a game I can use for my players without having to amass tens of books costing hundreds of dollars. I have very detailed ideas on how I want to apply a mechanic to my homebrew worlds, and trying to bend other RPG's around what I'd like to do is frustratingly difficult. GURPS comes very close, but I don't like it :) Therefore, I aim to create my own.

I would like to create a simple, easy-to-use, rules-light mechanic which can be applied to a variety of settings (fantasy, sci-fi, et. al). Using 6-sided dice would be ideal, although that's hardly a necessity. I've outlined below a simple, Attribute+Skill+-Modifer vs. Target Number system below. I would appreciate criticism (be as harsh as you need to be), and ideas on how to create the mechanic.

There are four primary attributes: Mind, Body, Esteem and Spirit. Each primary attribute has three secondary attributes, thus:

MIND Intelligence, Astuteness, Grit
BODY Strength, Agility, Endurance
ESTEEM Beauty, Wealth, Charm
SPIRIT Karma, Metaphysics**, Faith

Because this system is not points-based, I would like to have random rolls for each secondary attribute during Character Creation, using D6 if possible. The best way I could think of to go about this would be to have the player roll 15 dice, drop the lowest three and apply in order of choice. Then, the primary attribute is given the score of the average of all of its secondary attributes. For example, if a character has an Intelligence of 3, Astuteness of 4 and Grit of 1, his/her Intelligence score would be: 3+4+1/3 = 2.6 (rounded up to 3). That's if, of course, I were to use D6's.

During skill checks, the GM, based on the situation, would have the option of testing either a character's secondary attribute or primary attribute. Balancing a tightrope while carrying a 50-pound child would test the Body primary attribute because the feat requires not only Agility, but also Strength and Endurance. Balancing a tightrope alone would simply test the Agility secondary attribute.

I would like to have Karma play a role in task resolution, although I've been told that it's too powerful an attribute. Could it be used as a modifier somehow?

The entire Spirit attribute section is crunch only and can be applied or removed from campaigns based upon subject matter.

So above basically details my base mechanic. Does it pan out into something playable? And can anyone give me tips on how to handle combat and PC interactivity?

EDIT: One thing that concerns me is scalability, especially with a D6. If the system were to be used for a Supers campaign, how scalable is a D6 mechanic before breaking?

Thank you very much in advance for your replies.

[Precious Villain]

First of all, are you trying to use:
Attribute+Skill+/-Modifiers+d6 vs Target Number?  Wasn't clear in your post.

Second.
With a roll of 15 dice for the sub-attributes, dropping out the lowest three, you'll be pretty close to how 3rd Ed D&D rolls stats (i.e. 4d6 drop lowest).  Not exactly, but the tight stat ranges you see in D&D ought to be normal in your game.  In fact, the bell curve ought to be tight enough that you might as well use a point based system and do away with the randomness.  Unless you really want the illusion of randomness, of course.

Third.
With a flat d6 the system is only scalable if you are able to generate target numbers in the appropriate range: anywhere from 2-6 points higher than the character you are testing, but no more or less.

I can see a couple of issues cropping up with that in play.  If you've got a simulationist bent toward setting target numbers (i.e. they'll be predefined in the rules) then it should be pretty easy to set high sub-stats in one category and grab ranks in a skill or three tied to that category and blow out the curve.  You'll create a character who never fails.  At the other extreme, it's possible for a novice player to accidentally create a character who sucks at important tasks in the campaign.

We really need to see how you'll set skill points: will they be so high that they swallow the attributes, ala high level D&D 3?  so low that they are just a tiny bonus?  Roughly equal to stats?  

We also desperately need some idea how you'll come up with these target numbers.

Right now you've given us the equation:
A+B+C+(d6)=X

But we have no idea what B, C and X are.  There ain't no way I can solve that without some serious algebra because there are three open variables.  That means that mapping the set of solutions that might work for you has to be done in 3d and I don't have the software for that :)

SO . .

Please come back with what B (skills), C (modifiers) and X (target numbers) are.  Otherwise I can't help you much at all.

BTW: your system sounds reminiscent of "Feng Shui" which is an awesome game and would work great for supers.  So there's totally hope here.

[Frank The Pug]

First of all, are you trying to use:
Attribute+Skill+/-Modifiers+d6 vs Target Number?  Wasn't clear in your post.

Yes, sorry. That is correct.

Second.
With a roll of 15 dice for the sub-attributes, dropping out the lowest three, you'll be pretty close to how 3rd Ed D&D rolls stats (i.e. 4d6 drop lowest).  Not exactly, but the tight stat ranges you see in D&D ought to be normal in your game.  In fact, the bell curve ought to be tight enough that you might as well use a point based system and do away with the randomness.  Unless you really want the illusion of randomness, of course.

Point-based isn't out of the question. I was looking for the randomness element.

Third.
With a flat d6 the system is only scalable if you are able to generate target numbers in the appropriate range: anywhere from 2-6 points higher than the character you are testing, but no more or less.

I can see a couple of issues cropping up with that in play.  If you've got a simulationist bent toward setting target numbers (i.e. they'll be predefined in the rules) then it should be pretty easy to set high sub-stats in one category and grab ranks in a skill or three tied to that category and blow out the curve.  You'll create a character who never fails.  At the other extreme, it's possible for a novice player to accidentally create a character who sucks at important tasks in the campaign.

We really need to see how you'll set skill points: will they be so high that they swallow the attributes, ala high level D&D 3?  so low that they are just a tiny bonus?  Roughly equal to stats?  

We also desperately need some idea how you'll come up with these target numbers.

Right now you've given us the equation:
A+B+C+(d6)=X

But we have no idea what B, C and X are.  There ain't no way I can solve that without some serious algebra because there are three open variables.  That means that mapping the set of solutions that might work for you has to be done in 3d and I don't have the software for that :)

SO . .

Please come back with what B (skills), C (modifiers) and X (target numbers) are.  Otherwise I can't help you much at all.

I had planned on having skill points being on the low side (i.e., 1-2). I think it's impossible to set Target Numbers in the core rules, especially considering the open-endedness of a generic system.

BTW: your system sounds reminiscent of "Feng Shui" which is an awesome game and would work great for supers.  So there's totally hope here.

Hmm, I'll have to check that out.

Thanks for your help!

[btrc]

To get the variation higher than 1d6 in the final total for a roll, how about simply rolling 1d6 for each point applied? That is, if you have a Body of 4 and a skill of 1, you roll 5d6.

Possibly apply a "keep only the best 3" like EABA does, or "any roll of a 6 (or whatever) is a success" and you're just trying to get a certain number of successes, similar to Shadowrun.

A graphical thing to consider (and which I can't do in ASCII) would be to have a center circle with the average attribute, a larger outer circle with three borders, with the subattributes in each, and then a smaller circle intersecting these borders with the average of the adjacent subattributes. So, if I had a subattributes A, B and C of 2, 4 and 6, I would have a center circle with a 4, surrounded by A, B and C, and between A and B would be a 3, between B and C would be a 5 and between C and A would be a 4. That way you know what any combination of the subattributes will be.

Greg
BTRC

[Frank The Pug]

To get the variation higher than 1d6 in the final total for a roll, how about simply rolling 1d6 for each point applied? That is, if you have a Body of 4 and a skill of 1, you roll 5d6.

Possibly apply a "keep only the best 3" like EABA does, or "any roll of a 6 (or whatever) is a success" and you're just trying to get a certain number of successes, similar to Shadowrun.

A graphical thing to consider (and which I can't do in ASCII) would be to have a center circle with the average attribute, a larger outer circle with three borders, with the subattributes in each, and then a smaller circle intersecting these borders with the average of the adjacent subattributes. So, if I had a subattributes A, B and C of 2, 4 and 6, I would have a center circle with a 4, surrounded by A, B and C, and between A and B would be a 3, between B and C would be a 5 and between C and A would be a 4. That way you know what any combination of the subattributes will be.

Greg
BTRC

Greg,

Great stuff! Does EABA use a single die (d6) mechanic? Or dicepool? If so, is it a generic system? If so, how do you handle scale (for supers, for instance)?

[btrc]

Does EABA use a single die (d6) mechanic? Or dicepool? If so, is it a generic system? If so, how do you handle scale (for supers, for instance)?

EABA uses a single die type (d6) with +1 and +2's thrown in, where you try to match or beat a difficulty number. Skills add to your Attribute roll, with a maximum equal to the Attribute (so a 2d+0 Agility could have no more than a +2d skill bonus).

Things involving skill or Attribute rolls use "best three", which means that no matter how good your skill is, your roll caps at 20 (maximum for 3d6+2). Supers are handled by a powers system, and superhuman levels of skill or Attribute are handled by a Trait called "Larger than life", which simply lets you keep "best four" or "best five" or whatever, allowing you to reach difficulty numbers no mere mortal could ever hope to with a "best three" roll.

EABA is a generic, open license system (plug, plug, plug). You might be able to stuff your Attribute/Subattribute ideas into it (each of EABA's six Attributes (Strength, Agility, Awareness, Will, Health, Fate) can have a Forte and a Weakness), but I don't know enough about what you have in mind to tell.

If the BTRC site (www.btrc.net) is up in your area (Hurricane Gaston is messing up some fiber lines around here), you can go to the EABA page and snag some of the free download material (char sheets, dice curves, etc.) and see if it meets your needs. If so, great! If not, plagarizing rule ideas is the sincerest form of flattery...;)

Greg
BTRC