Sex & Robots

[sirogit]

Idiom: Reproduction-based stories, speicially with themes of technological invasion.

Settting: Ultra-modern, extremely familiar world save for the inclusion of advanced robots. There's a focus on the urgent and the downtrodden, but not an overly extreme focus. The odd places where the world seems much stranger and alien are factorys, scrapyards, and other industrial-esque places, where the backdrop is notably alien, technological and eerie.

Demons: Demons are extremely advanced robots. They do not exist at the edge of science nor well-integrated with humanity, they exist in abudence, but with a tense seperation between themselves and humanity born of fear and distrust. The rule of secrecy is not in effect.

A paticular intereast in this setting is how robots fit into reproductive issues, which is held in high intereast by both parties. Robots have the ability to fit themselves into many different stages of the reproductive pattern, in either traditional or alien methods, and once they're a part of human's reproduction system in a small way, they strive become larger and larger parts of it, until normal reproductive patterms are completely gone.

Passers: Passers may be passably android humans or animals, but they are more commonly blatantly robots.

Object: Objects can be a variety of sentient machines, some common place and some rare.

Parasites: Parasites come in two forms: One is the more common computer virus which can only exist within computer programming, and the other are microscopic robots which can live inside of a person, which have the danger of becoming possessors.  

Sorcery: Contacting, Summoning and Binding all take place within reproductive, commonly sexual contexts.

Sorcerors: As per the Lore descriptors, a common point of entry into the robot world is a dissatifaction with or barrier from interacting with normal human reprodctive actitvity.

Humanity: Empathy for humans, in both an active and passive sense, which covers A) Compassionate emotionial response B) Recognizing what is human over what is robotic C) Choosing human priorities over robot priorities.

At both Humanity 0 and Humanity 10, the character's struggle with the rift between humans and robots is considered complete, and that character's existence fades away with the signiciant progression of their lineage, or their effect on the world. The difference is, at Humanity 10, that effect comes in the form of what they do for humans, often in a human reprodctuive context, and at Humanity 0, that effect comes in the form of what they do for robots, often in a robotic reprodctuive context.

Descriptors:

Will: Any two will descriptors may be combined at any level of Will. However, its assumed that the descriptor written first is the "Primary" descriptor, something that the other descriptor has been sacrified for, as they are difficult to co-exist with. All Will descriptors describe a form of relationship(Not nessecarily its literal description) that they are pre-disposed to.

Child

Lover

Mother/Father

Latent(Must be combined with another descriptor): Even though this person displays potential for existence of the other descriptor (Child, Lover, Mother/Father or some combination there of.) they do not currently engage in such relationships, whether out of situation or desire.

Lore: Any two lore descriptors may be combined, the requisite Lore level is based on the primary descriptor.

Alienated(Lore 3-5): For some reason or another, this character isn't engaging in typical human romance, which serves as leverage into the robot world.

Artificial Birth(Lore 4-8+): This could describe any sort of technologically-infused birth, from cloning to gene-splicing to partially robotic beings. Their place in the rift between humans and technology is espicially exgarretated as they must find a place for themselves within it.

Robotic Partner(Lore 2-4): The character's entry involvement with robots stems from a very personal interaction with a machine. The two shared a much more typical relationship with that changed into something else.

Naive(Lore 1-3)(Must be taken as primaryalong with another Lore descriptor.): The same as it's other descriptor, except for the character was unaware of their condition up until a short time before now.

Stamina: Stamina descriptors follow the normal rules for combining descriptors.

Natural: Just good genes and excersize. Such individuals usually appear notably unimpressive.

Deadly Machine: This represents a calculated, structured fighting style which extends into other areas of physical competence, it describes both robotic combat programming and martial arts, and in both cases uses the martial arts rules from sex & sorcery.

Primal: Someone who exist with a rawer mindset than others. Physical and combative excellence is linked to unpredictability, and emotionial determination. Stamina rolls get bonuses when describing emotional motivations.

Weapon: A signature weapon or tool of the character. May be a simple or special gun or sword, a complicated tool, or even some sort of armor.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Seems like a perfect 180 from the Asimov robot situation, in which robots are "fundamentally decent" (a quote from an I Robot story) and the conflicts they generate, their sacrifices, and the puzzlement among humans are all emblematic of the limitations of the rather grubby human condition. Same goes for Asimov-derived film like Millennium Man (haven't seen the film I Robot yet, do not want to go into it in this thread).

It strikes me that you've got a pretty strong "robots bad" thing goin' on. Is it based on the idea that one should recognize who is the tool and who is the user of the tool?

Best,
Ron

[sirogit]

Ron,

Thank you immensly for not bringing up the I, Robot movie.

I'm not going for "Robots = bad" in a very blatant sense, nor am I heading straight for the "Machines that use us" analogy.

I'm going for them, as a symbol of technology, to be aggressively intereasted in replacing human reproduction, either in paticular stages or as a whole. Not so much representing the theme of "Woops, I created a social structure where I'm my computer's bitch" as much as "We're getting closer and closer to transcending all sorts of shit with technology, and transcendence is really scary taken far out of our scope. Maybe there's things we'd rather hold on to."

I want robots to be compassionless, and emotionially effiecent and simple, so that they are capable of embodying ideals that would be difficult for the complicted creatures like men, and those ideals could include pleasantness or loyalty if it served the robot's purposes. I guess that atleast makes them pretty scary, but also very useful to the right people. For most intents and purposes, robots are prostituites and high school crushes.

While I think that the theme is strengthened by the comparison of robots to technology in general, I don't really see a commentary on the dangers of technology as the end-goal of the game, I see the end-goal as a commentary on humans exposed to an inhuman situation, and what possibly good or horribly bad things may be taken from a situation.

[Ron Edwards]

I'm liking this! It has a classic SF purity and touches upon modern SF's transhuman stuff without getting all weird and mystical about it.

I don't mind saying that most transhuman SF annoying on multiple levels. Heresy, I know. I think most of the works are just plain bad stories.

But let's not go into that necessarily. Sirogit, it's time for descriptors!!

Best,
Ron

[sirogit]

I'm a little iffy on the Will descriptors, I like how they relate to the themes of the game, and I like how they embody powerfull emotionial concepts, espicially mother/father, but at the same time, I feel as if they could be potentially limiting within the construct of relationship issues and moreso out of, and the names give a bad Jungian vibe, which I'd like to go away from.

[sirogit]

One of the major things I want to avoid is "wishy washy vague mysticism cribbed from bad tv psychics, where the future will be puppies and orgasms."

The other was to avoid "Robots as representing minorities" because A)I find the idea vaguely offensive B) I hate those "The minority" characters, bland, overly-sympathic characters that lack any charistics of actual people.  

---

I thinnk any of the main book Deisres would work great, with the understanding thet they are intertwined with the Desire to replace human reproduction in part or whole(Something like how Ron does Ghosts). Needs I see as either being things the robot needs to consume continue functioning, something like gas or large quanties of food, or "perform its function"-kind of mental things.

So,, I guess you missed the decriptors on first read Ron? Tell me what you think of them.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Dunno how I missed those. Incipient senility.

Will: ...

Child

Lover

Mother/Father

Latent(Must be combined with another descriptor): Even though this person displays potential for existence of the other descriptor (Child, Lover, Mother/Father or some combination there of.) they do not currently engage in such relationships, whether out of situation or desire.

I dunno man, Latent looks like a cop-out. I think it's just fair to say that if you have one of the other descriptors, it doesn't necessarily mean that you currently have (e.g.) a lover. It's just what you get your oomph from - and if you don't have it, then you're working hard on getting it.

Lore: Any two lore descriptors may be combined, the requisite Lore level is based on the primary descriptor.

Alienated(Lore 3-5): ...

Artificial Birth(Lore 4-8+): ...

Robotic Partner(Lore 2-4): ...

Naive(Lore 1-3)(Must be taken as primaryalong with another Lore descriptor.): The same as it's other descriptor, except for the character was unaware of their condition up until a short time before now.

H'm ... I'm thinking that Naive oughta be scrubbed and leave the "how long ago" as a separate variable, given one's descriptor. I'm also thinking you need at least two more, perhaps "artificer" (you're someone who knows what makes the robots tick, or think you do, with a technical background) and "cyborg," in that you have some robotic parts.

Stamina: Stamina descriptors follow the normal rules for combining descriptors.

Natural: ...
Deadly Machine: ...
Primal: ...
Weapon: ...

I like these.

Best,
Ron

[sirogit]

I'm thinking of re-doing the descriptors, and forgetting that easily-combinable-thing. New descriptors:

Will:

Protective
A strong instinct to protect the people you love.

Paradigm / Belief System
Like belief system, but commonly expressed in terms of attitude rather than specific beliefs.

Hungry
You stay hungery and in need, and let it intensify their actions and imagination, rather than letting it screw them up.

Dissolute
Moral systems never worked for you before, and you're not going to let them obscure your way now. You derive your power from jumping in and out of the social system at will. Common descriptor for hedonists, axe-grinders and philsophical skeptics.

Simulated
You cultured a fake face, a personality that does exactly what you want it to do.

Genuine
Remarkably sincere and unpretentious. It edges out manipulation and mimicry by being actually unprecedented.

Adventurous
A inbedded desire to explore life, usually accompanied by bravery and gregarious or distant charm.

--------

Lore:

Alienated

Robotic Partner

Artifical Birth / Cyborg
Goes well with trading down humanity, either to raise it or other scores.

Artificer(I can't believe I missed this, I think it was because I really wanted to avoid the impression that Sorcerers had to be engineers, and I didn't remember to include the option.)

Explorer: Time spent exploring the edges of the human condition that bend over on technology. Distinct from but combinable with Adventurous.

-------

Once I settle onto a set of descriptors, I'm really happy with the setting as designed. My ideal group for this game is definately from my non-roleplaying, quirky/sexual friends, espcially because they've dabbled a little bit in horror and sci-fi, but not so much that they absorb the crap spewed out for it. (I'd Espicially like this girl that read Philip K Dick to me while playing dodgeball, that was so awesome.) Not a swing against geeks, it's just a big disconnect I have with the geek aesthetic. They'd think this was robot porn anyway.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Hey, would anyone like to try to make a character for this, complete with Kicker, as a thought-experiment for Sirogit to practice his prep-fu with?

I think that would be a great exercise.

I'd Espicially like this girl that read Philip K Dick to me while playing dodgeball

I bet you would.

Given your comments about robot porn, it also might be good to think in terms of personal Lines and Veils. I wouldn't overdo it, as (a) such things tend to get established for real only during play, and (b) such reflection has a danger of becoming play-before-play, but a little is good.

Best,
Ron

[Ben Lehman]

Okay.  Here's a sample character, complete with Kicker

Paul Wessen
Stamina: 2 (Natural)
Will: 4 (Genuine)
Lore: 4 (Robotic Partner)

Telltale: All of his clothes are perfectly folded, hair is perfectly cut.
Price: Insomniac (-1)
Humanity: 4

Demon: Cindy Wessen
Stamina: 5
Will: 6
Lore: 5
Power: 6

Need: Sex
Desire: Caretaking / Service (if this is not appropriate, then Love)

Powers:
(not sure yet, here)


Background: Paul is an ordinary low-level accountant who works at Hensen Personal Robotics in Boulder, CO.  He is a pretty ordinary guy, who has had a pretty ordinary, but not awful, life.

Kicker: I have just decided that I cannot live the shallow, fragile lie with my robot wife anymore, and am walking out the door to find Alice, my old college flame.

[Andrew Martin]

Demon: Cindy Wessen
Stamina: 5
Will: 6
Lore: 5
Power: 6

Need: Sex
Desire: Caretaking / Service (if this is not appropriate, then Love)

Powers:
(not sure yet, here)

How about:
Passer - more attractive than any human woman.
?
:)

[sirogit]

Nice character, if not alot written down.

I am extremely undetermined on the subject of Lines and Veils, As I A)Think sexual explictiness, used well, could heighten the effects I'm going for, and B) I would very easily be the person with the loosest limits C) Don't see it as a horribly important element.

I think that if the game was sexually explicit, if the sex scenes were done for the purpose of being emotionially affecting/intriguing, they would also be somewhat pornographic, but if they were done to be pornographic, they would be just be funny. The former is totally cool with me, the latter I'd want to avoid. But in all likelihood I'm giving the most conservative person the Line/Veil marker.

[neelk]

Thomas Mill Shannon
Stamina: 2 (Deadly Machine)
Will: 4 (Paradigm -- Utilitarian)
Lore: 4 (Alienated)
Humanity: 4

Telltale: His speech is littered with mathematical jargon, particularly when discussing human motives
Price: Abnormally flat affect (-1)

Demon: Datavore
Type: Object (AI in a super-advanced PDA)
Need: Information/News/Gossip
Desire: Hardware upgrades
Powers: ???

Datavore is a sophisticated AI program designed to analyze social information relating to its owner and to present a "rational" assessment. (Bear in mind that psychologists find that the clinically depressed are the most able to rationally estimate probabilities.)

Background: Thomas is an aid worker in some futuristic Third World country (think Blade Runner by way of Mexico City).  The NGO he works for is not quite corrupt, but is rather  ineffectual because its activities are not well-integrated into the lives of the people it's there to help.

Kicker: Thomas has just realized that the reason he hasn't had a romantic relationship in three years is not merely because he finds his fellow aid workers to be foolish, fatuously self-righteous, and blind to the needs of the people they ostensibly serve, but also because his own latent racism has prevented him from forming romantic relationships with the locals. (He may or may not have beaten Datavore to that realization.)

-*-*-*-

Thomas comes from the idea that while the game-theoretic/economic description of social welfare treats all humans as essentially equivalent, our biological nature pushes us to value close relatives and members of our in-group more highly than strangers. (cf Haldane's quip "Would I lay down my life to save my brother? No, but I would to save two brothers or eight cousins.") In play, I'd push very hard to get Thomas towards "The Outlaw Triumphant" corner of the four big outcomes, where Thomas makes a basically utilitarian moral stand and decisively rejects Humanity as a central moral principle. Whether he lives or dies is not material, though I suspect you could get more juice if he dies.

[sirogit]

That's a really swell character, and it reminds me of an intereasting avenue into the premise which I considered and did not mention clearly, which is, robots which intersect the whole reproduction issue as third parties; playing roles in romantic attraction/selection, chastity enforcers, etc etc, which could either significantly dig themselves into the sorcerer's life by exgarrating their role, or try to blossom out into other aspects of the sorcerer's life, like rabid moss.

While surfing around, I found a poem by H.R. Giger in his early years that really captures what I'm going for.

We. Atom Children

We are greatful to our begetters
who, at the big bang,
after the Swiss atom regulation
dropped themselves in a reflex
and counted to fifteen like good people,
otherwise we wouldn't have been here.
We atom children do not wish to moralise
blame no one;
we simply want
you to get used to us and learn to appreciate us.
But we cannot promise you anything
for when we have taken over,
you will be thought of as abnormal
and will probably suffer under it.

(Big kudos to Ron, Ben, Andrew and Neelk for this thread.)

[Ben Lehman]

(I'm just going to duck in here at the last moment and rewrite the Wife demon)

Stamina: 1
Will: 2
Lore: 1
Power: 2

Abilities: (she gets a free cover as a passer, right?)
Cover (housewife)
Cover (beautiful woman)

Why the weak demon?  Because, if I were running the game, I would play her as the ultimate Ophelia -- she really loves her husband, despite the fact that he sees her as a machine.  In the search for a "real" (reproductive) relationship, he just can't figure that out.  Sad.

yrs--
--Ben