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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 161 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: GenCon booth construction  (Read 10532 times)
jrs
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Posts: 373


« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2004, 07:15:10 AM »

Quote from: Jasper the Mimbo
I find it hard to believe that any state would have a problem with with a raised platform with a safty railing.

I'd imagine that it has more to do with ADA compliance (non-able attendees would not have access), and liability (an object or person falls from the 2nd story onto an unsuspecting attendee).  These concerns may be ameliorated by the temporary nature of the structure, but we won't know for sure until we hear from GenCon administration.

Julie
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Jasper the Mimbo
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2004, 01:01:38 PM »

Thanks for looking into the details for me, guys.

I'll get started on initial drafts on Sunday and hopefully post it for review sometime next week.
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Mike Holmes
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2004, 01:40:35 PM »

Quote from: jrs
Quote from: Jasper the Mimbo
I find it hard to believe that any state would have a problem with with a raised platform with a safty railing.

I'd imagine that it has more to do with ADA compliance (non-able attendees would not have access), and liability (an object or person falls from the 2nd story onto an unsuspecting attendee).  


Liability I can see as an issue. But I'm guessing that this is covered in the booth costs. That is, already there is the liability that somebody has if somebody trips over your loose booth carpeting and hits their chin on the floor. This is always a concern and probably already covered for "normal" things. Where we get hitched up is in terms of whether or not the second story is covered in the policy. That said, it's not impossible that we might be able to pay an extra premium for the coverage.

No idea what the cost might be. Again, only GenCon can tell us what the deal is there. I'm pessimistic because if it could be done for a reasonable cost, I think it already would have been done. That said, generally I'm optimistic, and think that with some creative thinking that we can work around the problem.

As for the disability problem all we have to do is have one table downstairs for such players and that should ameliorate any concerns there. Again, I'm sure that the Con will have that sort of detail.

Mike
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daMoose_Neo
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2004, 04:51:07 PM »

Actually, GenCon asks that exhibitors carry their own insurance, naming GenCon in it and holding them free of any actual liability. Check the fine print :P Gotta love all of the legaleez.
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Nate Petersen / daMoose
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LordSmerf
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Posts: 864


« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2004, 08:09:03 PM »

I received a reply from the Jeanette Keblish regarding vertical booth construction.

Quote from: Jeanette Keblish
Ok I just read through the thread.  It sounds very cool but you could not do it with a 10x20.  You would have to have an island booth and those start at 20x20.  And actually there are ppl that have done it in the past but they received a height variance and only went up about 14 feet.  They created a platform for gaming and then used the area under the platform for storage of giveaways, etc.  It was not an enclosed space with a 2nd floor though more of a platform.  Remember UDE’s booth in ’03 that is the same sort of concept.

I have to be very careful of line of sight issues with other exhibitors too so keep that in mind.  I allowed Rook Steel Storage to do a solid wall one year but they had to be up against a wall to do that.

 I do believe there are restrictions for structure building imposed by the Indy Con Ctr.  I will check with them on that too.


So, that is where things stand.  It sounds like it may be doable, but there is clearly some more information for them to confirm on their end.  I think that the answer is pretty comprehensive, but if anything is missing or anyone wants to get more details it would probably be wise to ask here and let me forward the questions.  We probably do not want to overwhelm the terribly nice GenCon people with our nagging...

Thomas
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LordSmerf
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« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2004, 08:18:42 AM »

Another note from Jeanette:

Quote from: Jeanette Keblish
A Multi-story Exhibit is a booth where the display fixtures exceed twelve feet (12’), including Double-decker and Triple-decker Booths. In many cities, a Multi-storied Exhibit requires prior approval by the exhibit facility and/or relevant local government agency because it is deemed to be a “structure” for building purposes. The city building department generally needs to issue a building permit based on an application and drawings prepared and submitted by a licensed architect or engineer. Exhibitors should obtain local building regulations early on to ensure that all time constraints are met. Exhibition organizers should be prepared to assist exhibitors in this application process.


Hurray for ridiculously helpful people!

So, unless we have a liscensed Architect or Engineer in our pocket, it sounds like we can do vertical stuff with two requirements:

1. We have a 20x20 island booth.
2. No part of the structure exceeds 12 feet.  I read this as meaning that the guard rails or wall or whatever must come in at 12 feet or slightly below.

So, what to do?

Thomas
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2004, 08:20:30 AM »

Good info, everyone. Since the liability is on the exhibitor, we're free to do whatever we want from that standpoint - taking on whatever liability problems may occur. That is, likely it's the people paying for the booth overall who hold the liability. Which means that it's they that have to decide if it's safe or if they want to actually get insurance, etc.

I'm the sorta crazy zagnut who'd just trust to Jasper's skill to create something safe. But that's just me.

It also sounds like GenCon doesn't mind in principle. Leaving only the convention center restrictions, and the LOS issues. Done properly, I don't see the latter as particularly problematic, as the parts that will be obstructing things will not extend that high. I'm imagining a high railing, but that and the people above won't stand too high. So, if the floor is a reasonable 8 feet off the ground, the total won't much exceed fourteen feet (Jasper, does that sound right?). Making it possible by precedent.

I'm getting very optimistic now.

Mike
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LordSmerf
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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2004, 08:31:57 AM »

Ok, just because we need a 20x20 booth does not mean that we need a 20x20 upper deck.

Jasper, you're now the resident expert on the subject.  What sort of problems/advantages would pop up with a 20x20 upper deck.  You mentioned needing a center post for support, what else?  Additionally, how feasible/desireable would it be to do a 10x20 upper deck that only rose over half of the booth space.  This would hopefully reduce the need for expensive lighting and all that...

Also, if we are using a 20x20 booth anyway is there a real need to get extra space up top?  If not I would still love to see some elevate banner space and such (those freestanding "closets" sounded pretty cool).

Thomas
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2004, 08:32:51 AM »

Oops, cross posted there.

Thomas, actually that could be read that there is a problem with either any structure over 12 feet, or with any double or triple decker structure. I'm guessing that's the case. In any case, I think that it would be very difficult to make a safe structure that was less than 12 feet tall. Would be very close.

OTOH, the information is ambiguous in a very important way, which is that it says "In some cities." May be that, in fact, Indianapolis is not one of these cities. We'd have to check there.

In any case, if it does happen that we require such an individual, is anyone out there so liscenced? I'm betting we have at least one engineer or architect out there somewhere. If not, I have some friends who have these credentials that I might be able to impose upon. Again, worst case.

Mike
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Jasper the Mimbo
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« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2004, 01:26:15 PM »

All right! now we're getting somewhere.

So, a 20x20 booth space is fine, but do we have to use a 20x20 top floor also. Could we have a 20x20 space with a 10x20 platform at the back creating a sort of alcove/balcony feel. I'd like to stick to the 10x20 second story for stability reasons and to shy away from to many support beams. Just because we are renting the entire space doesn't mean we have to use it.
If the structure has to be aproved by GenCon and local athorities that backs up the time frame by 4 to 6 weeks to have plenty of time to arange for the inspection.

So, my idea is 20x20 ground floor, 10x20 top floor, at the end of an isle (3 way visibilty) a 9 foot celing with a 3 foot safety rail makes 12 feet. The over all effect of having it layed out like this would be a balcony rather than a second story. I'm picturing a very tavern-like appearance that should appeal to most gamers, especially considering the forge booth atmosphere.

If my hasty calculations are right that will give us about about 430-450 square feet of table space between the upper and lower floors. So much space! so many Demos!
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LordSmerf
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« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2004, 02:53:38 PM »

I am going to try to get in touch with the Indianapolis Convention Center to see what kind of regulations they have, and hopefully they will be able to let me know what kind of city ordinances govern this sort of thing.  When I know more, you'll know more.

Thomas
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2004, 06:19:36 AM »

The biggest obstacle by far, IMO now, is the increased costs that we're looking at.

Quote
You would have to have an island booth and those start at 20x20.
That's a different cost from a normal 20x20. Using last year's prices (this years are not yet published that I'm aware of), that's nearly $1000 more for the booth at least - possibly more.

That's before the cost for building the platform is added on. So once Jasper comes up with a cost and adds it on, the major investors in the booth are going to have to do some hard thinking about whether or not this can go forward.

I still remain optimistic, but I wanted the cost issue to be out there.

Here are the costs of some sizes from last year to give an idea:
Code:
Booth                            Early                        Comp
Type              Dimensions  Priority  Priority      Late  Badges
End cap                10X20    $2,400    $2,640    $3,080       4
4-booth peninsula      20X20    $4,750    $5,335    $6,490       8
4-booth island         20X20    $5,620    $6,180    $7,760       8
6-booth island         30X20    $8,000    $8,800   $11,085      12


It seems to me that a 10x20 easily gives enough play room above - it's the same size as the entire booth from previous years. Combine that with some tables below (which also takes care of the ADA issue mentioned), and you have twice what we've had previously. While still retaining more than twice the sales space from last year. Basically we'd have triple the room, which sounds like plenty. Quadruple probably wouldn't be worth the cost.

Further, if you ask me, having the booth half covered, and half exposed seems to me to be the best of worlds in terms of creating something eyecatching. That is, with the contrast, people would just have to look and see what was outside, inside, up top.

Mike

Mike
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timfire
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2004, 08:22:14 AM »

What's the rough estimate for how much the 2nd story would cost in supplies + labor, BTW?
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Jasper the Mimbo
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Posts: 110


« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2004, 01:50:47 PM »

Honestly, I haven't even looked into cost yet. Lumber isn't that expensive, I have access to the tools I'll need, and I don't think I'll even need to pay anyone who'll be helping me. Maybe a case of beer or something. Tell me how much money is being put into this project and I'll tell you what I can do. A budget would be nice so I know what to prioritize for.  The most expensive part will probably be transporting it once it's done. No one out here is old enough to rent a U-haul (need to be 25 years old) so someone may need to rent one out there, drive here, load up and go back. Either that or we hire professional movers.
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Ben Lehman
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2004, 02:46:11 PM »

Quote from: Jasper the Mimbo
No one out here is old enough to rent a U-haul (need to be 25 years old) so someone may need to rent one out there, drive here, load up and go back. Either that or we hire professional movers.


BL>  Third option -- we design something that is easily disassemblable and hall it out in someone's van, then assemble it at GenCon.

This assumes a smaller platform.

yrs--
--Ben
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