More shows worth emulating

[Matt Wilson]

Here's a thread where you can post new or old shows that you think are good role-model shows for Primetime Adventures, adding to the short and questionable list I included in the rulebook.

I'll kick it off...

Desperate Housewives
This show is a pleasant surprise, and perfectly set up for Primetime Adventures-style play. Ensemble cast, a great mix of personal stories (the issues are begging for attention) and mysterious uber-plot, a narrator that'd be fun as hell for someone (maybe the producer) to play, and an amazing cast and great writing. As opposed to most in-game series, which I wish could be on television, I wish this show were a game I was playing right now.

I'll be equally impressed if this show finds an audience sufficient enough to keep it on the air.

Lost
This one's hard to describe, but it's seriously engaging. Brought to you by JJ Abrams, who produced the equally compelling Alias and Felicity. Here's how to do fear and vulnerability on a TV show. Another formula for cast and story that fits the game nicely.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

All in the Family and Good Times, the two hardest-hitting shows produced by Norman Lear.

MASH

Seinfeld

Babylon 5

I think it's important that PTA can handle almost-entirely episodic shows (Seinfeld) or almost-entirely epic shows (B5) without any problem. The game itself doesn't assume either.

You can use the distribution of Screen Presence as an "arc" (e.g. Buffy, B5) or just use it as a way of saying "who's up" (Seinfeld).

Best,
Ron

[John Harper]

Deadwood
A western, with Issues. The moral conflicts of this show are engaging and serve the western backdrop very well. What do you do with a ncessary evil? What is necessary? What is evil? The show casts a villain as the lead protagonist, and it works.

The Shield
Very similar to Deadwood in tone and themes. A modern cop-drama with Issues writ large. This show is a good primer on how to escalate conflicts and keep the pressure on the protags at all times. Almost every scene of this series is in-your-face conflict.

The Office
Played for laughs (as opposed to the exorcising of workplace demons) it could be lots of fun.

[Meredith]

All my favorite 'ship-y shows would work well - Gilmore Girls is already highlighted in the book, but I can see a great fit for Felicity, My So-Called Life and The O.C., too.

I just watched a series of Season 3 Felicity eps that follow the structure of issues and screen presence really well [Warning!  Don't read this if you're still looking forward to the DVD - Harper I'm looking at you!]:

- Ben's issue is seething anger at an absentee alcoholic father.  After a series of escalating hopes and disappointments (which lead to fistfights), he comes to a more peaceful outlook early on in the series.

- Molly's issue is troubled self-esteem, which translates into a relationship with an emotionally controlling and drug-addicted boyfriend.  That issue comes to a turning point in the middle of the series when he arrives at a party and starts shooting.  This finally breaks Molly free of him and she learns how to take care of herself.

- Noel's issue is heartbreak over the loss of his true love, Felicity, to his rival Ben.  He runs through a number of dissatisfying relationships with other women (including a disastrous stalking attempt) until at the end of the series of episodes he bares his soul to Felicity and attempts to come to terms with the consequences (loss of her friendship).

Ben gets an early high SP, Molly's is high in the middle, Noel's is high at the end.  They each confront their issues during their spotlight ep to the satisfaction of the audience.

[John Harper]

Thanks for the warning, The Deuce! Even now I am steadfastly averting my gaze from the details of your post.

Yes folks, I'm a Felicity fan. So what?

I thought of another role-model show:

Teen Titans
The current animated series. It's a fine example of tight plotting and pacing (they do a lot with 30 minutes) and how even a so-called "kids show" can deal with Issues. Each character has a clear issue and screen presence waxes and wanes from episode to episode. It also illustrates how notions of "power level" and character authority are not stumbling blocks for PTA-style play. A few characters are vastly more powerful than the others, but it doesn't impact screen presence or effectiveness in terms of the action or the story being told.

The other Timm/Murakami/Dini shows share these qualities: Batman Animated, Justice League, JL: Unlimited, Superman Animated, Batman Beyond.

[Jonas Larson]

Hi all,

Well, I'm a TV fanatic, I watch it all (okay, a mild overstatement) and that's the reason why I'm so incredibly exited about this game. But that's another thread.
Some of my favorite shows has allready been listed (like Deadwood, The OC, Gilmore Girls etc.) but some has not.

One Tree Hill: Just another teen soap, but it's really good and after a few episodes I was hooked, and I think it would fit PTA just fine.

Six Feet Under (listed in the book?): One of the best shows on TV. The daily life of the owners and employees of a funderal home is far more interesting then it seems. Great characters, really great characters. I would love to play one of them sometime...

CSI: I don't really know if it fits PTA or not, but if you want to play a show about murders and crime, this is what you want to take inspiration from at least, you can really get to know a lot of details that can add that extra touch.

Then there is obvious shows like Sopranos and Twin Peaks(I would love to play a Twin Peaks-esk scenario... but does it fit the game?).

[Matt Wilson]

Jonas:

Hey, thanks for posting.

Actually, the Six Feet Under reference in the book is the first bit of game errata that I have to post. After I approved it for printing, someone pointed out (thanks Julie!) that for some reason I refer to David Fischer as "Stephen." Whoops. Too much julebryg for me, huh?

Also, good call on One Tree Hill. Pretty much any teen-focused show is going to be packed with issues.

I've actually not seen an episode of CSI, believe it or not. But I'll try to catch the next one.[/b]

[rafial]

The original CSI (CSI Green) is all PTA material, all the way.  Gil's got his need for control and his encroaching deafness as issues, Warrick's got his gambling issue, Sara's got the whole "crush on my boss" thing, and Catherine's doing the "single parent juggling job vs family thing".  CSI: Miami (CSI Yellow) tries to do the same thing, but the characters are such stick figures and the situations so absurd it's hard to take seriously.  I've only seen one episode of CSI: New York (CSI Blue), so I haven't got a sense for that one yet.

In a similar vein, if you wanted to do "Dramady", you might take a looking at Crossing Jordan (known as "Jahden" around our house) which started out as a CSI knock off, but embraced its utter goofiness after the first season.  All the characters have melodramatic issues, which at this point are played up primarily for the goofy character interactions, with tongue frequently firmly in cheek.

[John Harper]

You're right about CSI Green, Wil. Running CSI as a PTA show, though, would change the focus somewhat. On CSI, an epsiode is about the case, and the (ahem) science used to solve it. The protags and their issues drift about in the background, more or less as emotional window dressing.

Running it as PTA, the elements would be reversed, I think. The issues of the protags take center stage and the (cough) science and the cases would become interesting background.

It would still be plenty of fun to play, of course. But I'm not sure that PTA really supports the "case first" style of the show.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Actually, I don't think a "case first" approach for PTA would be difficult at all. Screen Presence would still play exactly the same role; it's just not as "loud" at any setting as for, say, a Buffy or Six Feet Under type approach. Nor would there be any particular need for climactic, issue-resolving episodes.

Everyone would certainly have to put more effort into the external-to-character content, but granted that everyone wants to have a show about (e.g.) forensic investigation or (e.g.) sport-of-the-week, that's not hard either.

Best,
Ron

[John Harper]

Oh, you certainly could run a case-first game, no problem. But if you play PTA as written, I don't think the result is a case-first show. That's all I'm saying. The group needs to prioritize the case as the main thing, and dial back their screen presence appropriately, like Ron said.

What "dial back" and "appropriately" mean would be a matter of group taste.

I toyed with the idea of making the case itself a kind of character, with its own issue and screen presence. Then you'd run a case over several "episodes" and use the screen presence track as an indicator for when the case was dominant and when the protag's issues were dominant. The issue of the case (i.e. "Revenge" or "Greed") could come into play during a conflict, when appropriate, for either the producer or the players.

But that's probably over-thinking things that the group can handle in a more organic way.

[Jonas Larson]

Matt:

Hi, thanks and you're welcome.

Yeah, One Tree Hill has a bunch of issues, and in this show the parents have issues too. Maybe not as much as in The OC though but more in say 90210. A good thing with this kind of show is that you have so much to take inspiration from, all the high school movies and TV-series you've seen. And well, I kind of like some of the characters too. They are stereotypes like the jock and the cheerleader and the new kid with problems, but sometimes you catch new sides of them too, sides you didn't expect.

Yeah, catch CSI, especially Las Vegas. New York is good too (a little darker and with Gary Sinise in the lead, who I like). I don't really care for Miami, but I haven't seen it that much either. It airs on the worst time in Sweden (Saturdays at 20.00). I really do think that you could play a couple of episodes with "case first" but I think it's more interesting to put more focus on the issues between the different characters. But that depends on the case. A good case can become a real plunge into the depths of the characters souls if you make it personal.

I got to tell you, I look forward to playing this game.

Later
/Jonas

[rafial]

Now the show that would be interesting to try to map into the PTA format would be Law & Order.  The variant I have the most exposure to is SVU, and it definitely has character issues colliding with the "case of the day" on a frequent basis, which sounds perfect for PTA.  What would be interesting though is the investigation/prosecution split around which each episode is structured.  I wonder if the thing to do might be to give each player two protags, one for each half.  Then you could bounce between them as the case moves through the system.

[pete_darby]

Okay, without wishing to reach the point of infinite recursion:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7146
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7133

... are a couple of threads from last year where we were thrashing around this idea for Medical & legal dramas.

Ally McBeal would kick ass in ways that the TV show didn't... for a start, you'd never be wondering why the lead character's pencil neck didn't snap under the weight of that head. Heck, it was all about issues with legal cases being the dramatisation of issue of the week.

ER... yup yup yup.

Meanwhile, I'd like to volunteer Ultraviolet, the first two series of Survivors, the Last Train, The Adventures of Robin Hood (goldcrest 1980's), Spooks... hmm, have to raid the cult TV sites now for UK episodic TV

[Alan]

I'll suggest a British shows from the past:

UFO (Gerry Anderson's series).  The best episodes always hinted at some personal issues of the main characters, conflicts between service and personal life, and/or tension between command and in the field agents.

The Sandbaggers.  Exceptional British series of the late 70s.  It follows MI-6 operations, both agents in the field and the machinations of the ops director against various internal bureaucratic pressures.  

Cracker.  Fitz consults as a profiler for serial murder cases, and specializes in cracking suspects so they confess.  He's charming and has a gift for seeing people's darkest secrets.  He also smokes too much, drinks too much, and gambles.  "I am too much!"  Episodes weave an invesigation with various developments in his and the supporting cast's lives.